Senate Committee on Judiciary (03/11/2009)

Final
STAFF SUMMARY OF MEETING

SENATE COMMITTEE ON JUDICIARY

Date:	03/11/2009	ATTENDANCE

Time:	01:39 PM to 07:38 PM	Hudak	X
		King K.	E
Place:	SCR 356	Lundberg	X
		Newell	X
This Meeting was called to order by		Renfroe	X
	Senator Morse	Carroll M.	X
		Morse	X
This Report was prepared by
	Sara McPhee
		X = Present, E = Excused, A = Absent, * = Present after roll call

Bills Addressed:		Action Taken:
HB09-1191 HB09-1190 HB09-1227 SB09-241		Referred to the Committee of the Whole Referred to the Committee of the Whole Referred to the Committee of the Whole Amended, Referred to Appropriations

01:39 PM -- House Bill 09-1191

Senator Boyd, bill sponsor, explained that House Bill 09-1191 is based on a 2008 U.S. Supreme Court decision. She stated that the bill addresses liens for medical assistance by the Department of Health Care Policy and Financing (HCPF) against third parties.

01:41 PM -- Gary Ashby, representing HCPF, spoke in support of the bill. He explained that his job is to ensure that people are paying their medical benefits. According to Mr. Ashby, this bill only allows HCPF to place liens for medical services. He indicated that this is current practice for HCPF, so this bill codifies current practice in statute.


BILL:	HB09-1191
TIME:	01:45:13 PM
MOVED:	Carroll M.
MOTION:	Refer House Bill 09-1191 to the Committee of the Whole with a recommendation that it be placed on the consent calendar. The motion passed on a 6-0 roll call vote.
SECONDED:
		VOTE
	Hudak	Yes
	King K.	Excused
	Lundberg	Yes
	Newell	Yes
	Renfroe	Yes
	Carroll M.	Yes
	Morse	Yes

Final YES: 6 NO: 0 EXC: 1 ABS: 0 FINAL ACTION: PASS

01:47 PM -- House Bill 09-1190

Senator Mitchell, bill sponsor, explained that the bill addresses rules of evidence for admissibility. Specifically, according to Senator Mitchell, this bill addresses statements in legal proceedings for providing a uniform standard for statements made on foreign soil to be used as evidence in a legal proceeding in Colorado. He noted that this is a uniform act from the National Conference of Commissioners on Uniform State Laws.

01:51 PM

Senator Renfroe asked about sworn affidavits and why those could not be used. Senator Lundberg asked about the no votes from the House of Representatives. Senator Renfroe asked about the list of exclusions in the bill. Senator Mitchell discussed the exclusions in the bill.


BILL:	HB09-1190
TIME:	01:57:30 PM
MOVED:	Morse
MOTION:	Refer House Bill 09-1190 to the Committee of the Whole. The motion passed on a 5-0 roll call vote.
SECONDED:
		VOTE
	Hudak	Yes
	King K.	Excused
	Lundberg	Yes
	Newell	Yes
	Renfroe	Yes
	Carroll M.	Excused
	Morse	Yes

Final YES: 5 NO: 0 EXC: 2 ABS: 0 FINAL ACTION: PASS

01:58 PM -- House Bill 09-1227

Senator Hudak, bill sponsor, explained that the bill addresses equity skimming of real property.

01:59 PM -- Lawrence Castle, representing himself, spoke in support of the bill. He explained that the bill extends the crime of equity skimming to include the collection of rent on a foreclosed property. He explained situations where tenants have been paying their rent, but did not realize that they were living in a foreclosed property.
02:01 PM -- Ed Talbot, representing the Arvada Housing Authority and Housing Colorado, spoke in support of the bill. He believes that the bill will provide a deterrent and also raise public awareness on the issue.


BILL:	HB09-1227
TIME:	02:06:10 PM
MOVED:	Hudak
MOTION:	Refer House Bill 09-1227 to the Committee of the Whole. The motion passed on a 5-0 roll call vote.
SECONDED:
		VOTE
	Hudak	Yes
	King K.	Excused
	Lundberg	Yes
	Newell	Yes
	Renfroe	Yes
	Carroll M.	Excused
	Morse	Yes

Final YES: 5 NO: 0 EXC: 2 ABS: 0 FINAL ACTION: PASS

02:07 PM

The committee took a brief recess.

02:19 PM -- Senate Bill 09-241

Senator Morse, bill sponsor, explained that the bill requires that DNA be taken from felony arrestees. According to Senator Morse, current law only allows for DNA to be taken at a felony conviction. He explained that he believes that this will improve public safety. He also noted that it may reduce unnecessary arrests. He distributed to the committee a packet of materials (Attachment A) and Amendments L.001, L.002, L.003, L.004, L.005, and L.006 (Attachments B, C, D, E, F, and G).

02:28 PM

Senator Lundberg asked about the expungement provision. He noted that he is concerned about DNA material being used after it is supposed to be expunged. Senator Morse asked Doug Wilson, representing the Office of the State Public Defender, to come to the table to explain the amendments. Mr. Wilson stated that Amendment L.001 would only collect the DNA for a crime of violence, burglaries, and sex assaults. Mr. Wilson explained that Amendment L.002 would, upon motion of the defendant, order the court to run a database check for evidence that would exonerate the defendant. Amendment L.003, according to Mr. Wilson, requires that the DNA be taken when charges are filed and not at the time of arrest. He stated that the amendment also creates a methodology for what would occur if the expungement did not happen when it should have. He indicated that Amendment L.004 would prohibit familial searches which means that if the DNA is taken for an individual that DNA could not be used to look for family members in the database. Finally, Mr. Wilson explained that Amendment L.005 creates a reporting procedure to the General Assembly and the Governor to see how the bill has worked. Senator Morse explained that Amendment L.006 would refer to the law as Katie's Law.

02:37 PM -- Mitch Morrissey, representing the Denver District Attorney's Office, spoke in support of the bill. He noted that he has been involved in the drafting of this bill. He stated that he believes that this bill saves lives and exonerates innocent people. He also believes that it would save money in investigative work. He discussed situations where individuals have been caught for crimes because of DNA. Mr. Morrissey stated that if the amendments are added he will have to withdraw his support. He indicated that he believes that the amendments will increase the costs. He discussed the provision to automatically expunge DNA data from the database and that he believes it would increase the costs. Senator Lundberg asked about why the costs would increase. Senator Newell asked what other states are doing with the expungement provision.

02:57 PM

Mr. Morrissey discussed the process that CBI uses for DNA and that it is used solely for identification purposes. Mr. Morrissey also discussed the amendment concerning familial searching. Senator Morse asked about the number of expungements that might occur under this bill. Senator Morse discussed a possible amendment to make sure that the data that should have been expunged would not be able to be used against someone for a future crime. The committee continued to discuss the expungement provision.

03:29 PM

Senator Newell discussed the importance of solving cold cases.

03:32 PM -- Jayann Sepich, representing herself, spoke in support of the bill. She related her personal experiences with a family member who was killed and the role that DNA could have played in finding her killer. She discussed how DNA is used for solving crimes.

03:51 PM

Senator Carroll asked about DNA collected at crime scenes.

03:58 PM -- Daniel Oates, representing the Colorado Association of Chiefs of Police, spoke in support of the bill. He discussed the value of DNA in exonerating the innocent. He noted that felons who commit violent crimes also commit a variety of nonviolent crimes.

04:03 PM -- Doug Darr, representing the Colorado Sheriffs Association, spoke in support of the bill. He discussed possible cost savings from the bill. He also discussed the ways that this bill could help to solve crimes. He explained the differences between fingerprints and DNA in helping to identify people and solve crimes.

04:11 PM -- Geoff Blue, representing the Attorney General's office, spoke in support of the bill. He indicated that this bill would be instrumental in solving cold cases.

04:14 PM -- Mark Hurlbert, representing the Colorado District Attorneys Council, spoke in support of the bill. Mr. Hurlbert echoed the sentiments of other witnesses concerning the impact this bill could have on public safety. He discussed the way that investigations may be less costly by collecting DNA data on arrest.

04:18 PM

Senator Carroll discussed the notion of innocent until proven guilty in cases. She also asked about why the state would not collect DNA on everyone. Mr. Hurlbert likened DNA collection to taking a fingerprint for identification. Senator Carroll asked about legal protections concerning DNA in the database. Mr. Hurlbert discussed the way the database works for collecting and matching DNA information. Mr. Hurlbert also explained federal sanctions for misuse of the DNA data.

04:37 PM

Senator Carroll discussed the 4th amendment with Mr. Hurlbert. Senator Newell asked about the distinction between conviction and arrest. Senator Lundberg referred to the collection of the DNA specimens and the types of information those specimens contain.

04:43 PM -- Pam Shaner, representing the Colorado Bureau of Investigation, spoke about the bill. She provided an overview of how the DNA database system works. She also discussed the expungement procedures. Senator Lundberg asked Ms. Shaner about the specifics of the DNA collection, testing, and analysis.

05:03 PM -- Susan Berdine, representing the Denver Police Department, spoke in support of the bill. She indicated that she works for the Denver crime lab and supervises the DNA unit. She discussed the ways that the national DNA database impacts the work in the Denver crime lab. She also explained the checks and balances for the national DNA database.

05:12 PM -- Steve Siegel, representing the Colorado Organization for Victim Assistance, spoke in support of the bill. He discussed the importance of protecting the community and that he believes that this bill will help to do that.

05:15 PM -- Joe Cannata, representing Voices of Victims, spoke in support of the bill. He hopes that this bill will keep people from being victims in the future.

05:16 PM -- Cathy Hazouri, representing the ACLU of Colorado, spoke in opposition to the bill. She indicated that this bill goes against the fundamental principle that people are innocent until proven guilty. She discussed possible abuses if DNA is collected on everyone arrested of a felony.

05:29 PM

Senator Newell discussed the potential intrusions with this bill and that those intrusions may pale in comparison to the crimes that could be prevented.

05:35 PM -- Doug Wilson, representing the Office of the State Public Defenders, spoke in opposition to the bill. He distributed two handouts (Attachments H and I). He discussed the thousands of people who are arrested, but not convicted of felonies each year. He noted that the database will house genetic material in perpetuity. Mr. Wilson discussed the amendments and indicated that they are modeled after the law passed recently in Maryland. He explained familial DNA testing and the differences between fingerprints and DNA.

05:49 PM

Mr. Wilson noted that this bill does not require probable cause to collect DNA and it puts the burden on the person who is not charged or convicted of a felony to expunge their own record. He discussed the way that this bill will interact with the current rules of criminal procedure in Colorado. Mr. Wilson also indicated that he believes that DNA collected will not be used to exonerate innocent people, but rather it is solely a law enforcement tool.

06:06 PM

The committee took a brief recess.

06:13 PM

Senator Morse concluded his presentation of the bill. He discussed the testimony of Ms. Sepich. He stated that he believes that this bill will prevent crimes. He discussed the roles of police, prosecutors, and judges and the presumption of innocence. He explained the limits that already are in the bill and he stated that this bill is a powerful tool for crime prevention.


BILL:	SB09-241
TIME:	06:24:03 PM
MOVED:	Morse
MOTION:	Adopt prepared Amendment L.006 (Attachment G). The motion passed without objection.
SECONDED:
		VOTE
	Hudak
	King K.	Excused
	Lundberg
	Newell
	Renfroe
	Carroll M.
	Morse

Not Final YES: 0 NO: 0 EXC: 1 ABS: 0 FINAL ACTION: Pass Without Objection


BILL:	SB09-241
TIME:	06:24:34 PM
MOVED:	Carroll M.
MOTION:	Adopt prepared Amendment L.001 (Attachment B). The motion failed on a 1-5 vote.
SECONDED:
		VOTE
	Hudak	No
	King K.	Excused
	Lundberg	No
	Newell	No
	Renfroe	No
	Carroll M.	Yes
	Morse	No

Not Final YES: 1 NO: 5 EXC: 1 ABS: 0 FINAL ACTION: FAIL

Senator Carroll explained the amendment. Senator Morse indicated that he opposes the amendment. Senator Lundberg discussed the need to be mindful of constitutional limits. Senator Carroll noted that fewer innocent people will be in the database with this amendment.


BILL:	SB09-241
TIME:	06:32:42 PM
MOVED:	Carroll M.
MOTION:	Adopt prepared Amendment L.002 (Attachment C). The motion failed on a 3-3 roll call vote.
SECONDED:
		VOTE
	Hudak	Yes
	King K.	Excused
	Lundberg	Yes
	Newell	No
	Renfroe	No
	Carroll M.	Yes
	Morse	No

Not Final YES: 3 NO: 3 EXC: 1 ABS: 0 FINAL ACTION: TIE

Senator Carroll explained the amendment. Senator Morse indicated that he opposes the amendment because he does not believe that it will have the intended effect.


BILL:	SB09-241
TIME:	06:38:04 PM
MOVED:	Carroll M.
MOTION:	Adopt prepared Amendment L.003 (Attachment D). The motion was withdrawn.
SECONDED:
		VOTE
	Hudak
	King K.	Excused
	Lundberg
	Newell
	Renfroe
	Carroll M.
	Morse

Not Final YES: 0 NO: 0 EXC: 1 ABS: 0 FINAL ACTION: TIE

Senator Hudak discussed her reservations with the expungement process and why she supports this bill.


BILL:	SB09-241
TIME:	07:10:35 PM
MOVED:	Carroll M.
MOTION:	Adopt prepared Amendment L.004 (Attachment E). The motion failed on a 2-4 roll call vote.
SECONDED:
		VOTE
	Hudak	Yes
	King K.	Excused
	Lundberg	No
	Newell	No
	Renfroe	No
	Carroll M.	Yes
	Morse	No

Not Final YES: 2 NO: 4 EXC: 1 ABS: 0 FINAL ACTION: FAIL

Senator Carroll explained the amendment. Senator Morse indicated that he opposes the amendment because he wants to be able ensure that criminals are caught. The committee discussed the specifics of the amendment and the bill. The committee discussed the amendment and the 4th amendment.


BILL:	SB09-241
TIME:	07:19:25 PM
MOVED:	Carroll M.
MOTION:	Adopt prepared Amendment L.005 (Attachment F). The motion failed on a 3-3 roll call vote.
SECONDED:
		VOTE
	Hudak	No
	King K.	Excused
	Lundberg	Yes
	Newell	No
	Renfroe	Yes
	Carroll M.	Yes
	Morse	No

Not Final YES: 3 NO: 3 EXC: 1 ABS: 0 FINAL ACTION: TIE

Senator Carroll explained the amendment. Senator Morse indicated that he is not opposed to some measurement, but he is opposed to the amendment.


BILL:	SB09-241
TIME:	07:26:16 PM
MOVED:	Morse
MOTION:	Refer Senate Bill 09-241, as amended, to the Committee on Appropriations. The motion passed on a 5-1 roll call vote.
SECONDED:
		VOTE
	Hudak	Yes
	King K.	Excused
	Lundberg	Yes
	Newell	Yes
	Renfroe	Yes
	Carroll M.	No
	Morse	Yes

Final YES: 5 NO: 1 EXC: 1 ABS: 0 FINAL ACTION: PASS

07:38 PM

The committee adjourned.