Interim Committee to Study Issues Related to Pinnacol Assurance (10/16/2009)

Final
STAFF SUMMARY OF MEETING

INTERIM COMMITTEE TO STUDY ISSUES RELATED TO PINNACOL ASSURANCE

Date:	10/16/2009	ATTENDANCE

Time:	09:01 AM to 05:39 PM	Gardner B.	X
		Gerou	X
Place:	HCR 0112	Harvey	X
		Hodge	X
This Meeting was called to order by		Miklosi	X
	Senator Carroll M.	Mitchell	X
		Ryden	X
This Report was prepared by		Tochtrop	X
	Christie Lee	Johnson	X
		Meersman	X
		Morrison	A
		Parry	X
		Ross	X
		Simon	X
		Pace	*
		Carroll M.	X
		X = Present, E = Excused, A = Absent, * = Present after roll call

Bills Addressed:		Action Taken:
Overview of Legislation Public Testimony Public Testimony Continued Approval of Bills		- - - -

09:02 AM -- Overview of Legislation

Senator Carroll called the committee to order and explained the protocol for the interim committee bill approval process. First, the committee would receive a brief overview of each bill from the bill drafter followed by any comments from the committee member who requested the bill. Then the committee would hear public testimony on all of the bills at once and then amend and approve each of the bills.

09:03 AM -- Kristen Forrestal, Office of Legislative Legal Services (OLLS), presented Bill 1 concerning accountability for workers' compensation insurers (Attachment A). The bill was requested by Senator Hodge. Ms. Forrestal explained that the bill requires workers' compensation insurers to survey injured workers at the close of each claim. Senator Hodge added that the bill is a transparency bill. Senator Mitchell talked about the charge of the committee and questioned whether bills from the committee can address workers' compensation in general or only Pinnacol Assurance. A discussion ensued regarding the scope of the committee. Senator Harvey and Representative B. Gardner also commented on the issue. Senator Carroll responded and read the charge of the committee provided in Senate Bill 09-281. Mr. Ross added some comments on the charge of the committee and said that Pinnacol Assurance feels that the bills are outside the scope of the committee's charge.

09:21 AM -- Bart Miller, OLLS, presented Bill 2 concerning the functioning of Pinnacol Assurance, adding additional members to the board of directors of Pinnacol Assurance, and changing per diem compensation for members of the board (Attachment B). The bill was requested by Representative B. Gardner. Mr. Miller explained that the bill would increase the number of board members of Pinnacol Assurance from nine to 11, and add the Chief Executive Officer (CEO) as an ex officio member of the board. Mr. Johnson commented that the board would need more time to review the legislation before taking a position on the bill.

09:24 AM -- Bart Miller, OLLS, presented Bill 3, the Workers' Compensation Policyholder Protection Act of 2010 (Attachment C). The bill was requested by Representative Ryden. Mr. Miller explained that if the surplus of Pinnacol Assurance is greater than 1,000% of risk based capital, the bill would require the board of directors of Pinnacol Assurance to credit to the accounts of Pinnacol Assurance policyholders a dividend to bring the surplus of Pinnacol Assurance to less than 1,000% of risk based capital. For the prior approval of a pure premium rate filed by a workers' compensation insurance rating agency, the bill would require the insurance commissioner to approve the lowest rate recommended either by the rating organization or by the independent actuary employed by the division of insurance, unless the commissioner explains the rationale or justification for a different rate in the final agency order. The bill requires background material related to a workers' compensation pure premium rate filing to be posted on the division of insurance web site prior to any public hearing.

Representative Ryden commented on the bill. Senator Mitchell asked about the provision that changes the prior approval powers of the insurance commissioner. Representative Ryden stated that the bill would lower rates and narrow the window of the rates. Representative Gerou asked a similar question regarding the commissioner's duties. Senator Carroll asked the committee to hold questions for the sponsors to the end of the meeting when the bills are on the table for action and only ask questions of the drafters at this time.

09:31 AM -- Thomas Morris, OLLS, presented Bill 4 concerning limitations on the use of surveillance of employees who have submitted a workers' compensation claim (Attachment D). The bill was requested by Representative Pace. The bill would require an insurer or employer who wishes to conduct surveillance of an employee who has submitted a workers' compensation claim to present prima facie evidence that the employee's claim is fraudulent to a prehearing administrative law judge. It would also assess a fee to cover the cost of hearings and an additional fee of $50 to fund the injured worker advocate office. If no fraud is found, the insurer or employer must provide all materials collected during the surveillance to the injured worker. Finally, the bill creates a $1,000-per-day penalty for violations. Mr. Simon asked a question about an amendment that was distributed.

09:36 AM -- Kristen Forrestal, OLLS, presented Bill 5 concerning the creation of the injured worker advocate (Attachment E). Representative Pace requested the bill and said he would withdraw the bill so no discussion was needed.

09:37 AM -- Kristen Forrestal, OLLS, presented Bill 6 concerning the duties of the Pinnacol Assurance board of directors (Attachment F). She explained that the bill requires the board of directors of Pinnacol Assurance to charge less, pay more, and direct employees of Pinnacol Assurance to not ask injured workers difficult questions. Senator Mitchell requested the bill.

09:38 AM -- Dan Cartin, OLLS presented Bill 7 concerning disclosure by members of the General Assembly of an interest in legislation that amends the provisions of the "Workers' Compensation Act of Colorado" prior to voting or abstaining from voting on such legislation (Attachment G). The bill was requested by Senator Mitchell. Mr. Cartin explained that the bill would require that a member of the General Assembly who has a personal or private interest in any measure or bill proposed or pending before the general assembly that amends the provisions of the "Workers' Compensation Act of Colorado" must disclose that fact to the house of which he or she is a member prior to voting or abstaining from voting on the measure or bill. A personal and private interest is defined in the bill. Mr. Cartin explained that the bill was modeled after ethical principals in the Code of Ethics for the General Assembly. Senator Mitchell stated that legislators avoid conflicts by abstaining more often than rules require but members of a class need to be recognized before voting. Senator Tochtrop suggested making disclosure transparent on every bill introduced by making the rules broad enough to cover all legislation, not just workers' compensation. Senator Harvey supported this point and recommended amending the bill.

09:44 AM -- Bart Miller, OLLS, presented Bill 8 for Duane Gall concerning the reinstatement of vocational rehabilitation benefits in workers' compensation (Attachment H). The bill was requested by Representative Ryden. The bill would also require the Director of the Division of Workers' Compensation to maintain a list of eligible providers.

09:46 AM -- Jeremiah Barry, OLLS, presented Bill 9 concerning the appointment of the CEO of Pinnacol Assurance (Attachment I). The bill was requested by Representative Pace. The bill provides that the appointment of the CEO of Pinnacol Assurance is subject to the consent of the Senate. Mr. Ross asked what would happen if a new CEO started while the Senate is out of session. Mr. Barry said they would serve until session starts.

09:48 AM -- Kristen Forrestal, OLLS, presented Bill 10 concerning the privatization of Pinnacol Assurance (Attachment J). The bill was requested by Senator Mitchell. Ms. Forrestal explained the provisions of the bill. Senator Mitchell stated that Pinnacol Assurance does not want to be private, but would like to stay as is and he withdrew the bill.

09:51 AM -- Kristen Forrestal, OLLS, presented Bill 11 concerning the board of directors of Pinnacol Assurance (Attachment K). The bill was requested by Representative Miklosi. Ms. Forrestal stated that the bill would require that two employee members of the board of directors of Pinnacol Assurance be nonmanagement employees. The bill adds two additional members to the board: an injured worker and the executive director of the Colorado Department of Labor and Employment or his or her representative. The bill also changes the way the board is paid from a per diem compensation of $140 to $12,000 per year. It requires the board to post the date, time, and location of board meetings on the Pinnacol Assurance web site at least 7 seven calendar days prior to a meeting. Lastly, the bill requires the board to allow reasonable time for public comment at all board meetings. Mr. Johnson

asked the difference between a policy holder and a non management worker. Mr. Ross asked whether the injured worker in the bill can be any injured worker or an injured worker covered by Pinnacol Assurance. Representative Miklosi responded that the injured worker can be any injured worker.

09:53 AM -- Thomas Morris, OLLS, presented Bill 12 concerning increased penalties for violations of the workers' compensation laws (Attachment L). The bill was requested by Senator Tochtrop. The bill increases the penalty for violating the workers' compensation laws from up to $500 to up to $1,000 and changes the mental state from "willfully" to "knowingly" in the statute that penalizes denying workers' compensation medical benefits, delaying payment of medical benefits for more than 30 days, or stopping payments. The director of the Division of Workers' Compensation or an administrative law judge may apportion the penalties, in whole or part, among the aggrieved party, the medical services provider, and the workers' compensation cash fund. Representative Gerou asked about the $500 to $1,000 change and whether it is similar to other penalties.

09:58 AM -- Bart Miller, OLLS, presented Bill 13 concerning measures to reduce conflicts of interest in workers' compensation cases (Attachment M). The bill was requested by Senator Carroll. Section 1 of the bill requires a physician who has been proposed by the Division of Workers' Compensation in the Department of Labor and Employment to perform an Independent Medical Examination (IME) of an injured worker to disclose any business, employment, financial, or advisory relationship with an insurer or self-insured employer if a party requests the information. Section 1 gives a party to the IME process the right to obtain and review the information regarding any physicians proposed to conduct the IME prior to making a determination to eliminate one of the proposed physicians as an examiner. Section 1 of the bill also directs the director of the division to adopt rules as necessary to implement the disclosure requirements.

Section 2 of the bill prohibits the payment of a financial incentive by an insurer, self-insured employer, or health care provider to deny or delay a workers' compensation claim, or to deny or delay medical care or payment for medical treatment for any such claim. Section 2 of the bill declares that a violation of its provisions constitutes bad faith and an unfair or deceptive practice in the business of insurance and subjects the person committing the violation to penalties under the unfair or deceptive insurance practices statutes, which may be up to $3,000 per violation, not to exceed an aggregate penalty of $30,000, or, in the case of knowing violations, up to $30,000 per violation, not to exceed an aggregate penalty of $750,000 annually. Section 2 of the bill also subjects persons violating its provisions to penalties under the "Workers' Compensation Act of Colorado".

Section 3 specifies that contractual provisions that establish a reversionary interest in an insurer are void as against public policy. Senator Carroll talked about an amendment she has to the bill. Mr. Ross asked some questions regarding Section 3 and reversionary interest.

10:06 AM -- Jeremiah Barry, OLLS, presented Bill 14 concerning a brochure to describe the process for workers' compensation claims (Attachment N). The bill was requested by Representative Miklosi. Representative Miklosi commented on the bill.

10:07 AM -- Public Testimony

10:08 AM -- Willard Gatzke, representing himself, commented on the interim committee's previous meetings. He talked about the bills that address reversionary interest and privacy. Mr. Gatzke said the committee is a step in the right direction. Senator Mitchell asked Mr. Gatzke to talk about his injury and his issue with Pinnacol Assurance. Mr. Gatzke talked about the Independent Medical Examination. Senator Mitchell commented on Mr. Gatzke's comments. Representative Gerou asked whether Mr. Gatzke filed a complaint. Mr. Gatzke said he did file a complaint against the physician and he was given a response that there was no illegal actions found. Mr. Gatzke talked about the fact that IMEs cannot be sued under Colorado law. Dr. Parry talked about the Medical Practice Act. Mr. Gatzke submitted his written testimony (Attachment O).

10:35 AM -- Neil O'Toole, representing the Workers' Compensation Education Association, commented on Bills 3 and 13. He talked about a reference to possible legislative determination regarding risk based capital in Bill 3, page 3, line 22. He stated that this is a term of art for the commissioner of insurance that should be defined. Mr. O'Toole talked about Bill 3, page 4, where it limits the insurance commissioner's discretion. He suggested that on Bill 13, page 3, line 18, include "shall be denied or approved" instead of just denied. Mr. O'Toole also addressed reversionary interests on page 4. Mr. O'Toole explained that social security has a Medicare set aside trust for workers' comp claimants because Medicare does not pay for it. This statute could address set asides. Mr. Ross clarified that in Bill 3, the risk based capital formula should not be included in statute. Senator Mitchell asked about the Medicare set asides.

10:48 AM -- James Elson, representing himself, testified about his experience as a nurse at the Colorado Mental Health Institute at Pueblo with difficult, maximum security patients. He stated that he was assaulted routinely and had 17 surgeries. Mr. Elson said he shared his experiences with Pinnacol Assurance when filing claims. Mr. Elson said he also suffered from post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), depression, and anxiety from threats from patients and their families. He noticed that he and his family were under surveillance which increased his PTSD. Mr. Elson said that there needs to be probable cause for surveillance. He also would like settlements looked at for people who were manipulated into settling and allowing claimants to be given a chance to renegotiate.

11:05 AM -- Leonard Delgado from Pueblo, representing himself, spoke about working at the Colorado Mental Health Institute at Pueblo. Mr. Delgado said that the Medicare set aside came out of his settlement after he was told it would not. He read from a letter from a Pinnacol Assurance attorney stating that they would try to settle below the projected claim amount. Mr. Delgado also presented denial information. He said he found the Pinnacol Assurance doctor to be biased. Mr. Delgado said that he received a settlement of $95,000 but it went to Medicare. He also explained that if he does not use the money, it would return to Pinnacol Assurance. Mr. Delgado believes that PERACare should have received settlement rather than Medicare.

11:15 AM -- A panel of the following witnesses came to the table to testify together:

John Berry, representing the Workers' Compensation Coalition;
Tony Gagliardi, representing the National Federation of Independent Businesses;
Tamra Ward, representing the Denver Metro Chamber of Commerce;
Virginia Morrison Love, representing the Colorado Competitive Council (C3);
Dennis Jakubowski, representing the Assoicated General Contractors (ACG) of Colorado; and
Loren Furman, representing the Colorado Association of Commerce and Industry and Colorado Concern.

John Berry, representing the Workers' Compensation Coalition, noted that the bills have not been reviewed by boards yet. He made the following comments on the bills:

Bill 3 - they oppose because of a concern about the dividend trigger based on the RBC percentage. He is not sure the trigger will work and recommends trusting the board for these types of decisions.
Bill 4 - he said they do not condone abuses of surveillance, but believe it has uses.
Bill 9 - he commented on the Senate confirmation requirement for the Pinnacol Assurance CEO.
Bill 8 - he said he recalls that mandatory vocational rehabilitation was removed at the request of both employees and employers. He said it was a trade off with higher benefits and recommended leaving it optional.
Bill 13 - he said they are concerned about reversionary interest.
Bill 12 - he explained that they are concerned about reducing the standard for denying claims from knowingly to willingly and increasing the penalty.

Virginia Morrison Love, representing C3, made the following comments on the bills:

Bill 1 - she believes it is already being done and is concerned about the costs involved. She showed the committee the current letter Pinnacol Assurance sends claimants and said there is also information available from the division and said its quite thorough.
Bill 2 and 11 - she said she is concerned about changing the per diem so drastically.
Bill 14 - she believes Pinnacol Assurance and the division are providing information well.

Tony Gagliardi, representing the National Federation of Independent Business, said that he is concerned with the upward pressure on costs of employment. He explained that NFIB members want injured employees to return to work and that businesses can only control costs by not hiring or laying off employees. Mr. Gagliardi encouraged the committee to consider the bottom line costs to employers so no additional harm is done to the job market. He also commented on surveillance.

Loren Furman, representing the Colorado Association of Commerce and Industry and Colorado Concern, referred to Senate Bill 09- 281 and said that bill's intent was not to address the entire workers' compensation system. She talked about an amendment that was added during the conference committee last session that limited the scope to Pinnacol Assurance. Representative Pace asked the panel about Bill 3 that should lower premiums. Ms. Love responded that the insurance commissioner has plenty of discretion and that Pinnacol Assurance needs to maintain an adequate reserve. Mr. Berry does not think it changes current law much because it still gives the insurance commissioner discretion if rationale is provided. Senator Carroll clarified that when there is a doubt, the insurance commissioner should choose the lower. Dr. Parry asked about Bill 14 and asked why the panel would not want more information provided to claimants. Ms. Morrison Love said she doesn't object, but wants to know what more needs to be done. Dr. Parry does not think people know about their rights. Ms. Morrison Love provided a copy of a letter from Pinnacol Assurance that claimants receive along with a printout of the division's website and its resources (Attachments P and Q respectfully). Mr. Ross clarified that the RBC formula is used nationally and is used to determine if a company should be put on an action list. Mr. Ross explained that the company determines policyholder surplus and that Pinnacol Assurance's surplus levels are where they are supposed to be. He added that the insurance commissioner does not always choose the lowest loss cost, sometimes she has gone lower and already must justify his or her decision.

11:48 AM -- Mark Perschbacher testified on his own behalf. He said he just received an IME letter. Mr. Perschbacher talked about how his eyes were severely injured while working for CDOT in an explosion. He was told Pinnacol Assurance would not pay because he was not wearing safety glasses. Mr. Perschbacher said he has been accused of faking his injury. He talked about a newspaper article regarding a raft race that Pinnacol Assurance accused him of racing in that he claims he was not involved with. Mr. Perschbacher recommends training on equipment. He continued explaining his experience with Pinnacol Assurance and stated that he was ultimately fired by CDOT.

12:06 PM -- Lunch Break until 1:30 PM

01:30 PM -- Public Testimony Continued

Senator Carroll explained that the committee would be finishing witness testimony.

01:31 PM -- Phil Hayes, representing the Colorado AFL-CIO, testified on the draft legislation. He said they support bills 1, 3, 4, 11, 12, 13, and 14. Mr. Hayes commented on the drafts and the importance of transparency. Mr. Hayes addressed the business community's previous testimony. Mr. Hayes talked about the amount of time it takes to settle a workers' compensation claim and the effects that has on the injured worker. He gave some examples of injured workers who have been under surveillance following a workers' compensation claim. Mr. Hayes said he feels the bill that addresses that issue is wise.

01:41 PM -- Paula Rhodes, representing herself, stated that her claim was not handled by Pinnacol Assurance. She talked about some of the bills, including the information that is sent to claimants, issues she has had in court with her claim, and surveillance.

01:51 PM -- Kelly Campbell deferred her testimony.

01:52 PM -- Shelley Dodge, a claimant attorney, testified in favor of any legislation that creates transparency in the system. She suggested an amendment to Bill 1 regarding worker protection for retaliation. Ms. Dodge addressed Bill 14 and said that there is information available for claimants, but people need to know where to obtain it. She talked about the complexities of the Workers' Compensation Act that injured workers are supposed to know. Ms. Dodge pointed out some provisions of the bill. She noted the difficulty for claimants, as well as others, to locate important details and legalities contained in workers' compensation guidelines. She discussed the lack of penalty range increases, that penalties have not increased over time. In addition, the problems and difficulties that have been discussed by claimants occur on a regular basis. Ms. Dodge responded to questions from the committee regarding the injured worker that testified before lunch.

02:10 PM -- James Simmons, representing himself as an injured worker who is currently in the process, testified in support of bills 1, 3, 4, 11, 13, and 14. Mr. Simmons stated that he is not covered under Pinnacol Assurance. He talked about stories he has heard from other injured workers and issues with his doctor about requesting an MRI. Mr. Simmons addressed the surveillance issue and talked about Bill 14. Senator Mitchell commented on the surveillance issue. Mr. Simmons commented on Senator Mitchell's comments. Dr. Parry talked about her experiences reviewing medical surveillance videos. Senator Mitchell responded.

02:27 PM -- Approval of Bills

Senator Hodge moved Bill 1 concerning accountability for workers' compensation insurers. Mr. Ross suggested better defining the close of each claim and stated that there are claims with no loss time that are not reported to the division. He also commented on the annual report requirement and asked that the committee not require information that is already included in the annual report Pinnacol Assurance is already required to provide. Senator Hodge said she would like to leave the definitions up to the director. Senator Harvey asked the drafters to comment. Kristen Forrestal, OLLS, commented. Ms. Parry agreed with Mr. Ross and asked that the definition of closed claims be kept to only loss time claims.


BILL:	Approval of Bills
TIME:	02:31:48 PM
MOVED:	Harvey
MOTION:	Move to amend Bill 1 to define claim on line 6, page 1, to mean claims that are already required to be filed with the division of insurance. The motion passed 10-0.
SECONDED:
		VOTE
	Gardner B.	Yes
	Gerou	Yes
	Harvey	Yes
	Hodge	Yes
	Miklosi	Yes
	Mitchell	Yes
	Ryden	Yes
	Tochtrop	Yes
	Johnson
	Meersman
	Morrison	Absent
	Parry
	Ross
	Simon
	Pace	Yes
	Carroll M.	Yes

Not Final YES: 10 NO: 0 EXC: 0 ABS: 1 FINAL ACTION: PASS

Mr. Simon requested that perks be added to the report requirement in the bill. Representative Gerou commented that the bill will raise costs for businesses. Senator Carroll commented on the report and stated that Pinnacol can afford to do it and that she believes the information from the survey will be helpful. Mr. Ross pointed out the fact that the bill includes other workers' compensation insurers and that his comments speak only to Pinnacol Assurance and not the other insurers.


BILL:	Approval of Bills
TIME:	02:54:27 PM
MOVED:	Carroll M.
MOTION:	Move to amend Bill 1 to give whistle blower protection to claimants who file a complaint or take a survey. The motion passed 10-0.
SECONDED:
		VOTE
	Gardner B.	Yes
	Gerou	Yes
	Harvey	Yes
	Hodge	Yes
	Miklosi	Yes
	Mitchell	Yes
	Ryden	Yes
	Tochtrop	Yes
	Johnson
	Meersman
	Morrison	Absent
	Parry
	Ross
	Simon
	Pace	Yes
	Carroll M.	Yes

Not Final YES: 10 NO: 0 EXC: 0 ABS: 1 FINAL ACTION: PASS

Mr. Meersman commented that if he were a voting member, he would vote no on the bill because he feels it does not fall under the charge of the committee. Senator Harvey commented on an earlier comment regarding the costs of the report being absorbed by Pinnacol. Representative B. Gardner also commented on the bill and the scope of the committee. Senator Mitchell commented on the scope of the committee and talked about the current amount of oversight over Pinnacol Assurance and pointed out that it is more than other insurers. Senator Tochtrop commented. Representative Ryden said it would not be fair if the bill only addressed Pinnacol Assurance. Representative Gardner commented on the scope of the committee. Mr. Ross talked about the performance audit in Senate Bill 281 and continuing audits and requested that all of the bills be looked at so Pinnacol Assurance does not have to pay and do the same report twice.


BILL:	Approval of Bills
TIME:	03:06:28 PM
MOVED:	Hodge
MOTION:	Move Bill 1, as amended, to the Legislative Council as an interim committee bill. The motion passed 6-4.
SECONDED:
		VOTE
	Gardner B.	No
	Gerou	No
	Harvey	No
	Hodge	Yes
	Miklosi	Yes
	Mitchell	No
	Ryden	Yes
	Tochtrop	Yes
	Johnson
	Meersman
	Morrison	Absent
	Parry
	Ross
	Simon
	Pace	Yes
	Carroll M.	Yes

Final YES: 6 NO: 4 EXC: 0 ABS: 1 FINAL ACTION: PASS

Senator Hodge said she would like the bill to begin in the Senate and that she would be the prime sponsor of the bill in the Senate and Representative Ryden would be the House sponsor. Co-sponsors of the bill are Representatives Miklosi and Pace and Senators Carroll and Tochtrop.

03:22 PM

Representative B. Gardner moved Bill 2 concerning the functioning of Pinnacol Assurance, adding additional members to the board of directors of Pinnacol Assurance, and changing per diem compensation for members of the board. Representative Gardner commented on his bill and talked about the board provision. Senator Tochtrop asked whether he will be supporting Bill 9. Representative Gardner was asked to discuss why the CEO should be on the board. Mr. Simon asked whether Mr. Ross currently attends the board meetings. Mr. Johnson responded that Mr. Ross attends the meetings unless they request him to not sit in the meeting. Mr. Johnson commented on the bill and stated the board had not had time to review it thoroughly. Mr. Meersman commented that he feels it may not be necessary to have the CEO on the board.


BILL:	Approval of Bills
TIME:	03:34:29 PM
MOVED:	Gardner B.
MOTION:	Move Bill 2 to the Legislative Council as an interim committee bill. The motion failed 7-3.
SECONDED:
		VOTE
	Gardner B.	Yes
	Gerou	Yes
	Harvey	No
	Hodge	No
	Miklosi	No
	Mitchell	Yes
	Ryden	No
	Tochtrop	No
	Johnson
	Meersman
	Morrison	Absent
	Parry
	Ross
	Simon
	Pace	No
	Carroll M.	No

Final YES: 3 NO: 7 EXC: 0 ABS: 1 FINAL ACTION: FAIL

03:39 PM

Representative Ryden moved and discussed Bill 3, the Workers' Compensation Policyholder Protection Act of 2010. She talked about Amendment 1 that would change the threshold of the surplus dividend trigger from 1,000 percent of RBC to 800 percent of RBC (Attachment R). Mr. Ross asked Representative Ryden where the percent came from. Representative Ryden said she looked at other companies' numbers. Senator Mitchell commented.


BILL:	Approval of Bills
TIME:	03:52:44 PM
MOVED:	Ryden
MOTION:	Move Amendment 1 to Bill 3 (Attachment R). The motion passed 7-3.
SECONDED:
		VOTE
	Gardner B.	Yes
	Gerou	No
	Harvey	No
	Hodge	Yes
	Miklosi	Yes
	Mitchell	No
	Ryden	Yes
	Tochtrop	Yes
	Johnson
	Meersman
	Morrison	Absent
	Parry
	Ross
	Simon
	Pace	Yes
	Carroll M.	Yes

Not Final YES: 7 NO: 3 EXC: 0 ABS: 1 FINAL ACTION: PASS

03:57 PM

Members commented on the bill. Mr. Johnson said the bill takes away all the flexibility the board has to set the surplus and gave an example of a catastrophic event that could cause a mass number of claims and a need for an adjustment outside the limits in the bill. Mr. Ross added that from 1983 to 2004 Pinnacol was unable to give out dividends. Mr. Meersman commented on the bill and the complexity of the insurance industry. Representative Gerou commented on the bill.


BILL:	Approval of Bills
TIME:	04:07:02 PM
MOVED:	Ryden
MOTION:	Move Bill 3 to the Legislative Council as an interim committee bill, as amended. The motion passed 6-4.
SECONDED:
		VOTE
	Gardner B.	No
	Gerou	No
	Harvey	No
	Hodge	Yes
	Miklosi	Yes
	Mitchell	No
	Ryden	Yes
	Tochtrop	Yes
	Johnson
	Meersman
	Morrison	Absent
	Parry
	Ross
	Simon
	Pace	Yes
	Carroll M.	Yes

Final YES: 6 NO: 4 EXC: 0 ABS: 1 FINAL ACTION: PASS

Representative Ryden said she would like the bill to begin in the House and that she would be the prime sponsor of the bill in the House and Senator Tochtrop would be the Senate sponsor. Co-sponsors of the bill are Representatives Miklosi and Pace and Senators Carroll and Hodge.

04:08 PM

Representative Pace moved Bill 4 concerning limitations on the use of surveillance of employees who have submitted a workers' compensation claim and Amendments 1 and 2 (Attachments S and T respectfully). He discussed the key points of Amendment 1. Mr. Simon suggested adding "in good faith" to line 17 of the amendment after "evidence".


BILL:	Approval of Bills
TIME:	04:14:24 PM
MOVED:	Pace
MOTION:	Move to amend Amendment 1, line 17, after "evidence", add "in good faith". The motion passed without objection.
SECONDED:
		VOTE
	Gardner B.
	Gerou
	Harvey
	Hodge
	Miklosi
	Mitchell
	Ryden
	Tochtrop
	Johnson
	Meersman
	Morrison	Absent
	Parry
	Ross
	Simon
	Pace
	Carroll M.

Not Final YES: 0 NO: 0 EXC: 0 ABS: 1 FINAL ACTION: Pass Without Objection


BILL:	Approval of Bills
TIME:	04:17:28 PM
MOVED:	Pace
MOTION:	Move Amendment 1 to Bill 4, as amended (Attachment S). The motion passed without objection.
SECONDED:
		VOTE
	Gardner B.
	Gerou
	Harvey
	Hodge
	Miklosi
	Mitchell
	Ryden
	Tochtrop
	Johnson
	Meersman
	Morrison	Absent
	Parry
	Ross
	Simon
	Pace
	Carroll M.

Not Final YES: 0 NO: 0 EXC: 0 ABS: 1 FINAL ACTION: Pass Without Objection


BILL:	Approval of Bills
TIME:	04:17:44 PM
MOVED:	Pace
MOTION:	Move Amendment 2 to Bill 4 (Attachment T). The motion passed without objection.
SECONDED:
		VOTE
	Gardner B.
	Gerou
	Harvey
	Hodge
	Miklosi
	Mitchell
	Ryden
	Tochtrop
	Johnson
	Meersman
	Morrison	Absent
	Parry
	Ross
	Simon
	Pace
	Carroll M.

Not Final YES: 0 NO: 0 EXC: 0 ABS: 1 FINAL ACTION: Pass Without Objection

04:20 PM

The committee continued discussing Bill 4 and possible amendments. There was a discussion about what happens to surveillance materials once they are no longer needed.


BILL:	Approval of Bills
TIME:	04:21:07 PM
MOVED:	Carroll M.
MOTION:	Move to amend Bill 4 to add that upon closure of a claim, the surveillance materials be destroyed unless they are reasonably necessary for an ongoing investigation and the statute of limitations for a potential court proceeding has expired. The motion passed without objection.
SECONDED:
		VOTE
	Gardner B.	No
	Gerou	No
	Harvey	Excused
	Hodge	Yes
	Miklosi	Yes
	Mitchell	No
	Ryden	Yes
	Tochtrop	Yes
	Johnson
	Meersman
	Morrison	Absent
	Parry
	Ross
	Simon
	Pace	Yes
	Carroll M.	Yes

Not Final YES: 6 NO: 3 EXC: 1 ABS: 1 FINAL ACTION: PASS

04:30 PM

Ms. Parry commented on surveillance. A discussion ensued regarding surveillance and how it is used in workers' compensation claims. Senator Mitchell and Representative B. Gardner commented. Mr. Meersman said that he believes the bill is outside the scope of the committee.


BILL:	Approval of Bills
TIME:	04:40:21 PM
MOVED:	Pace
MOTION:	Move Bill 4 to the Legislative Council as an interim committee bill, as amended. The motion passed 6-2.
SECONDED:
		VOTE
	Gardner B.	No
	Gerou	No
	Harvey	Excused
	Hodge	Yes
	Miklosi	Yes
	Mitchell	Absent
	Ryden	Yes
	Tochtrop	Yes
	Johnson
	Meersman
	Morrison	Absent
	Parry
	Ross
	Simon
	Pace	Yes
	Carroll M.	Yes

Final YES: 6 NO: 2 EXC: 1 ABS: 2 FINAL ACTION: PASS

Representative Pace said he would like the bill to begin in the House and that he would be the prime sponsor of the bill in the House and Senator Carroll would be the Senate sponsor. Co-sponsors of the bill are Representatives Miklosi and Ryden and Senators Tochtrop and Hodge.

04:46 PM

No motion was made to vote on Bills 6 and 7. Representative Ryden withdrew Bill 8 concerning the reinstatement of vocational rehabilitation benefits in workers' compensation. No motion was made to vote on Bills 9 or 10.

04:47 PM

Representative Miklosi moved Bill 11 concerning the board of directors of Pinnacol Assurance. There was a discussion about the injured worker that would be added to the board under the bill.


BILL:	Approval of Bills
TIME:	04:49:52 PM
MOVED:	Miklosi
MOTION:	Move Amendment 1 to Bill 11 (Attachment U). The motion passed without objection.
SECONDED:
		VOTE
	Gardner B.
	Gerou
	Harvey
	Hodge
	Miklosi
	Mitchell
	Ryden
	Tochtrop
	Johnson
	Meersman
	Morrison	Absent
	Parry
	Ross
	Simon
	Pace
	Carroll M.

Not Final YES: 0 NO: 0 EXC: 0 ABS: 1 FINAL ACTION: Pass Without Objection

Mr. Johnson asked about the political appointment to the board.


BILL:	Approval of Bills
TIME:	04:54:50 PM
MOVED:	Miklosi
MOTION:	Move Bill 11 to the Legislative Council as an interim committee bill, as amended. The motion passed 6-2.
SECONDED:
		VOTE
	Gardner B.	No
	Gerou	No
	Harvey	Excused
	Hodge	Yes
	Miklosi	Yes
	Mitchell	Absent
	Ryden	Yes
	Tochtrop	Yes
	Johnson
	Meersman
	Morrison	Absent
	Parry
	Ross
	Simon
	Pace	Yes
	Carroll M.	Yes

Final YES: 6 NO: 2 EXC: 1 ABS: 2 FINAL ACTION: PASS

Representative Miklosi said he would like the bill to begin in the House and that he would be the prime sponsor of the bill in the House and Senator Hodge would be the Senate sponsor. Co-sponsors of the bill are Representatives Pace and Ryden and Senators Tochtrop and Carroll.

05:06 PM

Senator Tochtrop moved Bill 12 concerning increased penalties for violations of the workers' compensation laws.


BILL:	Approval of Bills
TIME:	05:06:09 PM
MOVED:	Tochtrop
MOTION:	Move Bill 12 to the Legislative Council as an interim committee bill. The motion passed 6-2.
SECONDED:
		VOTE
	Gardner B.	No
	Gerou	No
	Harvey	Excused
	Hodge	Yes
	Miklosi	Yes
	Mitchell	Absent
	Ryden	Yes
	Tochtrop	Yes
	Johnson
	Meersman
	Morrison	Absent
	Parry
	Ross
	Simon
	Pace	Yes
	Carroll M.	Yes

Final YES: 6 NO: 2 EXC: 1 ABS: 2 FINAL ACTION: PASS

Senator Tochtrop said she would like the bill to begin in the Senate and that she would be the prime sponsor of the bill in the Senate and Representative Pace would be the House sponsor. Co-sponsors of the bill are Representatives Miklosi and Ryden and Senators Carroll and Hodge.

05:10 PM

Senator Carroll moved Bill 13 concerning measures to reduce conflicts of interest in workers' compensation cases. She explained that workers do not have HIPPA protections. Representative Gerou asked whether a doctor would see it fit to not share information with a patient. Ms. Parry said it is possible, but very rare. Mr. Ross asked a number of clarifying questions of the sponsor.


BILL:	Approval of Bills
TIME:	05:23:13 PM
MOVED:	Carroll M.
MOTION:	Move Amendment 1 to Bill 13 (Attachment V). The motion passed without objection.
SECONDED:
		VOTE
	Gardner B.	No
	Gerou	No
	Harvey	Excused
	Hodge	Yes
	Miklosi	Yes
	Mitchell	Absent
	Ryden	Yes
	Tochtrop	Yes
	Johnson
	Meersman
	Morrison	Absent
	Parry
	Ross
	Simon
	Pace	Yes
	Carroll M.	Yes

Not Final YES: 6 NO: 2 EXC: 1 ABS: 2 FINAL ACTION: PASS

Mr. Simon asked that Medicaid be first in line to be reimbursed.


BILL:	Approval of Bills
TIME:	05:24:18 PM
MOVED:	Carroll M.
MOTION:	Move an amendment to clarify the annuity provided in the bill to be indemnity-based benefits. The motion passed without objection.
SECONDED:
		VOTE
	Gardner B.
	Gerou
	Harvey
	Hodge
	Miklosi
	Mitchell
	Ryden
	Tochtrop
	Johnson
	Meersman
	Morrison	Absent
	Parry
	Ross
	Simon
	Pace
	Carroll M.

Not Final YES: 0 NO: 0 EXC: 0 ABS: 1 FINAL ACTION: Pass Without Objection

05:28 PM

Representative Gardner commented that he feels the bill is beyond the scope of the committee. Mr. Meersman agreed. Representative Gerou said she feels the bill will drive up costs for businesses.


BILL:	Approval of Bills
TIME:	05:28:43 PM
MOVED:	Carroll M.
MOTION:	Move Bill 13 to the Legislative Council as an interim committee bill, as amended. The motion passed 6-2.
SECONDED:
		VOTE
	Gardner B.	No
	Gerou	No
	Harvey	Excused
	Hodge	Yes
	Miklosi	Yes
	Mitchell	Absent
	Ryden	Yes
	Tochtrop	Yes
	Johnson
	Meersman
	Morrison	Absent
	Parry
	Ross
	Simon
	Pace	Yes
	Carroll M.	Yes

Final YES: 6 NO: 2 EXC: 1 ABS: 2 FINAL ACTION: PASS

Senator Carroll said she would like the bill to begin in the Senate and that she would be the prime sponsor of the bill in the Senate and Representative Miklosi would be the House sponsor. Co-sponsors of the bill are Representatives Pace and Ryden and Senators Tochtrop and Hodge.

05:29 PM

Representative Miklosi moved Bill 14 concerning a brochure to describe the process for workers' compensation claims. Mr. Simon suggested an amendment on page 5 of the bill to add at the end of the sentence "or any other rights conferred to the injured worker."


BILL:	Approval of Bills
TIME:	05:32:04 PM
MOVED:	Miklosi
MOTION:	Move to amend Bill 14, page 5, at the end of line 23, add to the end of the sentence "or any other rights conferred to the injured worker." The motion passed without objection.
SECONDED:
		VOTE
	Gardner B.
	Gerou
	Harvey
	Hodge
	Miklosi
	Mitchell
	Ryden
	Tochtrop
	Johnson
	Meersman
	Morrison	Absent
	Parry
	Ross
	Simon
	Pace
	Carroll M.

Not Final YES: 0 NO: 0 EXC: 0 ABS: 1 FINAL ACTION: Pass Without Objection


BILL:	Approval of Bills
TIME:	05:35:27 PM
MOVED:	Miklosi
MOTION:	Move Bill 14 to the Legislative Council as an interim committee bill, as amended. The motion passed 6-2.
SECONDED:
		VOTE
	Gardner B.	No
	Gerou	No
	Harvey	Excused
	Hodge	Yes
	Miklosi	Yes
	Mitchell	Absent
	Ryden	Yes
	Tochtrop	Yes
	Johnson
	Meersman
	Morrison	Absent
	Parry
	Ross
	Simon
	Pace	Yes
	Carroll M.	Yes

Final YES: 6 NO: 2 EXC: 1 ABS: 2 FINAL ACTION: PASS

Representative Miklosi said he would like the bill to begin in the House and that he would be the prime sponsor of the bill in the House and Senator Carroll would be the Senate sponsor. Co-sponsors of the bill are Representatives Pace and Ryden and Senators Tochtrop and Hodge.

5:39 PM

The committee adjourned.