House Committee on Judiciary (02/09/2012)

Final
STAFF SUMMARY OF MEETING

HOUSE COMMITTEE ON JUDICIARY

Date:	02/09/2012	ATTENDANCE

Time:	02:10 PM to 06:44 PM	DelGrosso	X
		Duran	*
Place:	HCR 0107	Kagan	X
		Lee	E
This Meeting was called to order by		Nikkel	X
	Representative Gardner B.	Pabon	X
		Ryden	X
This Report was prepared by		Sonnenberg	X
	Dave DeNovellis	Waller	*
		Barker	X
		Gardner B.	X
		X = Present, E = Excused, A = Absent, * = Present after roll call

Bills Addressed:		Action Taken:
Independent Ethics Commission HB12-1074 HB12-1064 HB12-1092 HB12-1048		Committee Discussion Only Amended, Referred to the Committee of the Whole Referred to the Committee of the Whole Referred to the Committee of the Whole Referred to Finance

02:13 PM -- Independent Ethics Commission

Jane Feldman, representing the Independent Ethics Commission (IEC), responded to questions from the committee about the commission's strategic plan. She stated that the IEC needs increased funding for training. Discussion ensued regarding payment for training conducted by Ms. Feldman. Ms. Feldman stated that the state pays her per diem when she travels for IEC-related activities, including training. She responded to questions from the committee about the commission's request for additional funding. Ms. Feldman stated that the additional funding is necessary for the IEC to be able to carry out its mission. Discussion turned to the exceptions to the Amendment 41 ban on gifts to state employees. Ms. Feldman stated that the IEC has backed away from its 2008 position due to a variety of reasons.

02:29 PM

Committee discussion with Ms. Feldman regarding the work of the commission continued. Ms. Feldman stated that the commissioners serve on a voluntary basis and it can be difficult to find meeting times that work for all them.

02:37 PM -- House Bill 12-1074

Representative Jim Kerr, prime sponsor, presented House Bill 12-1074 concerning access to data to assist the courts in overseeing persons appointed to manage the affairs of persons under disability. Under this bill, recommended by the Legislative Audit Committee, a court may access data maintained by state agencies that includes contact information for guardians and conservators acting on behalf of incapacitated or protected persons when the guardian or conservator has failed to file a required report or respond to a court order. A court conducting an investigation may access contact information for the guardian, conservator, incapacitated person, or the protected person, provided that the court preserves the confidentiality of any information it receives. The bill obliges all state government agencies with records containing personal contact information to respond to an investigation of a guardian or conservator by a Colorado court.

The bill specifically identifies vital statistics information (in the Department of Public Health and Environment), wage and employment data (in the Department of Labor and Employment), drivers' license and tax records (in the Department of Revenue), and voter records (as transmitted annually by the Secretary of State to the State Court Administrator's Office) as sources of personal contact information. The Judicial Branch and these named agencies, at their own discretion, may execute data-sharing agreements to guide the use of state agency data for guardian and conservator investigations.

To accept the status of a guardian or conservator under the bill, a nominee must sign a statement acknowledging to the court their understanding that they may be investigated, that such an investigation may include access to state agency data, or that they may be held in contempt of court for failing to file required reports or respond to a court order.

Background. A September 2011 report by the Office of the State Auditor found that Colorado courts supervising guardianship and conservatorship cases are deficient in obtaining and reviewing reports required of guardians and conservators and following up when these reports are missing. To address concerns in the audit report, the Judicial Branch stated that it would seek legislation granting courts access to Department of Revenue databases for contact information for delinquent guardians and conservators. The Legislative Audit Committee determined to support legislation with expanded authority to utilize information from multiple state agencies.

The bill identifies four executive branch departments that are presumed to have useful data for personal contact information. The bill also allows access to data maintained by other state agencies. There are many state agencies that maintain records with personal contact information. As examples:

• The Department of Natural Resources tracks personal information when hunting and fishing licenses are sold.

• The Department of Personnel and Administration maintains information about persons owing debts to the state.

• The Department of Human Services has some existing guardian and conservator information in its child welfare database.

• The Governor's Energy Office manages participation in the federal Low-Income Weatherization Program.

Representative Kerr responded to questions from the committee about the bill.

02:44 PM -- Tammy Conover, representing the Colorado Bar Association and the Colorado Elder Association, testified in support of the bill. Ms. Conover responded to questions from the committee regarding the breadth and scope of information the bill allows the courts to access. She stated that many agencies are listed because some people may not show up in certain databases. Ms. Conover said that the language in the bill clarifies what information courts can obtain, who can obtain it, and how they go about it. She responded to questions from the committe about why the courts can access wage and employment and income tax data. She stated that if the definition is too narrow, people might not be able to access pertinent information due to the way databases are maintained. Ms. Conover responded to questions from the committee regarding narrowing access to information. Discussion ensued about how narrowing access could prohibit people from accessing the necessary information.

02:56 PM

Committee discussion with Ms. Conover continued. Representative Kerr spoke about a judicial oversight report that discusses the need for the bill.

02:58 PM -- Jeff Clayton, representing the Judicial Branch, testified in support of the bill.

03:01 PM -- Greg Romberg, representing the Colorado Press Association and the Colorado Broadcasters Association, testified in support of the bill.

03:03 PM -- Rudy Bush, representing himself, testified in opposition to the bill. Mr. Bush brought a handout, which was distributed to the committee (Attachment A). He stated that the bill will not help and he does not like that the state puts senior citizens on guardianship, steals their money, and puts them on killer drugs.

03:07 PM

Representative Kerr wrapped up his presentation of the bill and explained prepared amendments L.001 and L.002 (Attachments B and C).


BILL:	HB12-1074
TIME:	03:08:13 PM
MOVED:	Barker
MOTION:	Adopt prepared amendment L.001 (Attachment B). The motion passed without objection.
SECONDED:	Waller
		VOTE
	DelGrosso
	Duran
	Kagan
	Lee	Excused
	Nikkel
	Pabon
	Ryden
	Sonnenberg
	Waller
	Barker
	Gardner B.

YES: 0 NO: 0 EXC: 1 ABS: 0 FINAL ACTION: Pass Without Objection


BILL:	HB12-1074
TIME:	03:09:10 PM
MOVED:	Kagan
MOTION:	Adopt prepared amendment L.002 (Attachment C). The motion passed without objection.
SECONDED:	DelGrosso
		VOTE
	DelGrosso
	Duran
	Kagan
	Lee	Excused
	Nikkel
	Pabon
	Ryden
	Sonnenberg
	Waller
	Barker
	Gardner B.

YES: 0 NO: 0 EXC: 1 ABS: 0 FINAL ACTION: Pass Without Objection


BILL:	HB12-1074
TIME:	03:11:43 PM
MOVED:	Kagan
MOTION:	Refer House Bill 12-1074, as amended, to the Committee of the Whole. The motion passed on a vote of 10-0, with 1 excused.
SECONDED:	Pabon
		VOTE
	DelGrosso	Yes
	Duran	Yes
	Kagan	Yes
	Lee	Excused
	Nikkel	Yes
	Pabon	Yes
	Ryden	Yes
	Sonnenberg	Yes
	Waller	Yes
	Barker	Yes
	Gardner B.	Yes

Final YES: 10 NO: 0 EXC: 1 ABS: 0 FINAL ACTION: PASS

03:16 PM -- House Bill 12-1064

Representative Stephens, prime sponsor, presented House Bill 12-1064 concerning the prohibition of limitations concerning firearms during an official state of emergency. The bill prohibits the state or any of its political subdivisions from limiting the otherwise lawful use, display, possession or transfer of ammunition or a firearm during an official state of emergency. During an emergency, lawfully possessed firearms and ammunition may not be seized or confiscated, except as necessary to make an arrest, to gather evidence for a crime, or for purposes of self-defense. Civil actions may be brought in order to return a seized firearm or ammunition and against a person acting on behalf of the state or a political subdivision.

Representative Stephens stated that the bill allows citizens to keep their firearms during an emergency. She spoke about Hurricane Katrina and stated that 31 states have passed similar legislation. She responded to questions from the committee.

03:29 PM -- Daniel Carey, representing the National Rifle Association, testified in support of the bill. Mr. Carey stated that the Second Amendment rights of citizens were violated during Hurricane Katrina and the bill protects Colorado citizens. He responded to questions from the committee. In response to questions, Mr. Carey stated that the bill is fine-tuned from other similar legislation in other states. Discussion ensued regarding the practical effects of the bill, given the executive branch's prerogative to declare a state of emergency and martial law.

03:41 PM -- Matt Arnold, representing himself, testified in support of the bill. Mr. Arnold stated that he witnessed the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina as a member of the Colorado National Guard. He expressed his opinion that the bill clarifies a citizen's Second Amendment rights. Mr. Arnold responded to questions from the committee about the circumstances in which a state of emergency may be declared. Representative Stephens stated that the bill applies regardless of the type of emergency.

03:59 PM

Discussion ensued among Representative Stephens, Mr. Arnold, and the committee.

04:09 PM

The committee, Representative Stephens, and Mr. Arnold continued discussing the bill.

04:19 PM -- Dudley Brown, representing Rocky Mountain Gun Owners and the National Association of Gun Rights, testified in support of the bill. Mr. Brown stated that Colorado does not have a system for registering firearms. He indicated that numerous state laws preempt the ordinances of home-rule cities.

04:27 PM -- Dave Gill, representing the Colorado State Shooting Association, testified in support of the bill.

04:30 PM -- Robert Edmiston, representing the Firearms Coalition of Colorado, testified in support of the bill. Mr. Edmiston provided a handout to the committee (Attachment D) and responded to questions.

04:32 PM -- Sheriff Chris Olson, representing the County Sherriffs of Colorado, testified in support of the bill.

04:33 PM -- Jimmy West, representing himself, testified in support of the bill. Mr. West stated that Hurricane Katrina is the perfect example of the state disregarding citizens' rights and, to this day, there is no clear path for people to recoup their damages.

04:36 PM -- Jim Sidebottom, representing the Firearms Coalition of Colorado, testified in support of the bill. Mr. Sidebottom responded to questions from the committee regarding whether there is any situation where citizens would like the help of the government to disarm someone. Mr. Sidebottom said he could not think of a situation in which Second Amendment rights should be abrogated.

04:44 PM -- Pam Volpe, representing herself, testified in support of the bill. Ms. Volpe spoke about people who suffered through Hurricane Katrina and stated that the bill will help citizens of Colorado.

04:49 PM Representative Stephens summarized the bill and the committee discussed it further.
BILL:	HB12-1064
TIME:	04:59:34 PM
MOVED:	Nikkel
MOTION:	Refer House Bill 12-1064 to the Committee of the Whole. The motion passed on a vote of 6-4, with 1 excused.
SECONDED:	Sonnenberg
		VOTE
	DelGrosso	Yes
	Duran	No
	Kagan	No
	Lee	Excused
	Nikkel	Yes
	Pabon	No
	Ryden	No
	Sonnenberg	Yes
	Waller	Yes
	Barker	Yes
	Gardner B.	Yes

Final YES: 6 NO: 4 EXC: 1 ABS: 0 FINAL ACTION: PASS

04:59 PM

The committee took a brief recess.

05:03 PM -- House Bill 12-1092

The committee came back to order. Representative Priola, prime sponsor, presented House Bill 12-1092 concerning the authority of a law-abiding person to carry a concealed handgun without a permit. Current law prohibits carrying a concealed weapon and carrying a weapon on school, college, or university grounds with certain exceptions. This bill expands the exceptions to include any person who is at least 21 years old and who may legally possess a handgun under United States and Colorado law. Pursuant to the bill, anyone who may legally possess a handgun and who carries a concealed handgun has the same rights and is subject to the same limitations as a concealed handgun permit holder. Unlawfully carrying a concealed weapon is a class 2 misdemeanor and unlawfully carrying a weapon on school, college, or university grounds is a class 6 felony.

05:05 PM -- Amy Miller, representing the Colorado Coalition Against Domestic Violence, testified in opposition to the bill.

05:09 PM -- Eileen McCarron, representing the Colorado Ceasefire Capitol Fund, testified in opposition to the bill. Ms. McCarron discussed the shooting of Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords and 18 others in Arizona in January 2011. She listed her concerns with individuals carrying concealed firearms. Ms. McCarron responded to questions from the committee.

05:15 PM -- Chief George Hughes, representing the Colorado Association of Chiefs of Police, testified in opposition to the bill. Chief Hughes expressed his opinion about the importance of a permitting process for carrying concealed firearms, especially for the safety of law enforcement officers. He emphasized that the chiefs do not advocate removing the permitting process or making it any more burdensome.

05:19 PM -- Daniel Carey, representing the National Rifle Association, testified in support of the bill.

05:20 PM -- Joe Neville, representing himself, testified in support of the bill. Mr. Neville read a prepared statement about the free exercise of Second Amendment rights to bear arms. He responded to questions from the committee. He distributed a fact sheet about the bill (Attachment E) and explained the written material.

05:28 PM -- Jimmy West, representing himself, testified in support of the bill. Mr. West expressed his opinion that many people cannot afford to pay the application fee for a concealed carry permit, which is a form of discrimination against poor people. He stated that poor people are just as law-abiding as those with enough money to obtain a permit. Mr. West responded to questions from the committee.

05:32 PM -- John Daniel, representing himself, testified in support of the bill. Mr. Daniel stated his opinion that current concealed carry laws have not resulted in mass murders in Colorado. He believes the state should extend trust to the law-abiding people of the state who wish to carry a concealed firearm. Mr. Daniel responded to questions from the committee.

05:34 PM -- Robert Edmiston, representing the Firearms Coalition of Colorado, testified in support of the bill. Mr. Edmiston cited research studies about gun use and ownership. He expressed his opinion that criminals are not concerned with permits.

05:36 PM -- Dave Gill, representing the Colorado State Shooting Association, testified in support of the bill. Mr. Gill spoke about similar laws in other states.

05:38 PM -- Pam Volpe, representing herself, testified in support of the bill. Ms. Volpe spoke about her experience working with an organization called Safety for Women and Responsible Motherhood. She discussed the success of the current concealed carry permit structure in Colorado and expressed her opinion that the bill will not change anything.

05:41 PM

Representative Priola wrapped up his presentation of the bill and asked for a favorable recommendation. He provided statistics about the benefits of carrying a concealed firearm.


BILL:	HB12-1092
TIME:	05:44:21 PM
MOVED:	Sonnenberg
MOTION:	Refer House Bill 12-1092 to the Committee of the Whole. The motion passed on a vote of 6-3, with 2 excused.
SECONDED:	DelGrosso
		VOTE
	DelGrosso	Yes
	Duran	Excused
	Kagan	No
	Lee	Excused
	Nikkel	Yes
	Pabon	No
	Ryden	No
	Sonnenberg	Yes
	Waller	Yes
	Barker	Yes
	Gardner B.	Yes

Final YES: 6 NO: 3 EXC: 2 ABS: 0 FINAL ACTION: PASS

05:46 PM -- House Bill 12-1048

Representative Waller, prime sponsor, presented House Bill 12-1048 concerning relieving the Colorado Bureau of Investigation (CBI) of its statutory duties as a point of contact for the federal National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) in cases of firearm transfers. This bill removes the requirement that the CBI in the Department of Public Safety perform background checks for the transfer of firearms. Instead, a gun show vendor is required to contact the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) to complete a background check and to verify a prospective owner's identity by checking his or her photo identification. Sheriffs' offices are also directed to contact the FBI directly for background checks for individuals seeking concealed carry permits.

Under the federal Brady Handgun Violence Protection Act of 1993, a criminal background check must be performed each time an individual initiates a firearms purchase from a federally licensed firearms dealer. Established in 1994, the InstaCheck unit of the CBI serves as the state point-of-contact for the NICS program. The NICS is a national system run by the FBI which checks available criminal background records in a variety of databases including the National Crime Information Center, the Interstate Identification Index, and the NICS Index. These databases are populated by information from local, state, federal, and international law enforcement agencies.

As a state point-of-contact, CBI staff access NICS electronically in place of FBI personnel to perform background checks for firearms transfers and on behalf of sheriffs for concealed carry permit applications. CBI staff also check three state databases not currently included in NICS: the Colorado Department of Motor Vehicles, the Colorado Crime Information Center, and the Integrated Colorado Online Network.

05:53 PM -- Ron Sloan, representing the CBI, testified in opposition to the bill. Mr. Sloan explained the Colorado Instacheck program and stated his opinion that it provides tremendous value over that of a NICS background check. He referred to a chart comparing the two systems (Attachment F). He expressed his opinion that CBI can further reduce wait times for background checks using planned technology solutions in the near future. He discussed the databases that are queried during a Colorado Instacheck background check and a NICS check. Mr. Sloan discussed denials issued by Colorado Instacheck and NICS and the retrieval of prohibited firearms by law enforcement officers. He went on to discuss the history of the Colorado Instacheck Program. He responded to questions from the committee.

06:16 PM -- Daniel Carey, representing the National Rifle Association, testified in support of the bill. Mr. Carey discussed the savings estimated in the fiscal note. He distributed written materials (Attachment G) and referred to them in his remarks. He responded to a number of Mr. Sloan's comments.

06:20 PM -- Chief George Hughes, representing the Colorado Association of Chiefs of Police, testified in opposition to the bill. Chief Hughes endorsed the testimony of Mr. Sloan.

06:21 PM -- Sheriff Chris Olson, representing the County Sheriffs of Colorado, testified in opposition to the bill. Sheriff Olson discussed the history of the Colorado Instacheck program.

06:23 PM -- Amy Miller, representing the Colorado Coalition Against Domestic Violence, testified in opposition to the bill. Ms. Miller spoke about the information available to CBI staff that is not available to FBI staff. She provided statistics about background checks. Ms. Miller responded to questions from the committee.

06:27 PM -- Eileen McCarron, representing the Colorado Ceasefire Capitol Fund, testified in opposition to the bill.

06:30 PM -- Robert Edmiston, representing the Firearms Coalition of Colorado, testified in support of the bill. Mr. Edmiston stated his opinion that concealed carry permit fees and background check fees are unconstitutional and that the NICS does a better job of preserving public safety than the CBI.

06:31 PM -- Joe Neville, representing the Rocky Mountain Gun Owners' Association, testified in support of the bill.

06:32 PM -- Jim Sidebottom, representing himself, testified in support of the bill. Mr. Sidebottom rebutted some of Mr. Sloan's testimony about background check wait times and about the completeness of court records. He expressed his opinion that fees for background checks represent a tax on a constitutional right and responded to questions from the committee.

06:35 PM -- John Daniel, representing himself, testified in support of the bill. Mr. Daniel told a story about a teenager who offered to sell his brother an illegal firearm.

06:37 PM

Representative Waller wrapped up his presentation of the bill and asked for a favorable recommendation.


BILL:	HB12-1048
TIME:	06:42:14 PM
MOVED:	Waller
MOTION:	Refer House Bill 12-1048 to the Committee on Finance. The motion passed on a vote of 6-4, with 1 excused.
SECONDED:	Nikkel
		VOTE
	DelGrosso	Yes
	Duran	No
	Kagan	No
	Lee	Excused
	Nikkel	Yes
	Pabon	No
	Ryden	No
	Sonnenberg	Yes
	Waller	Yes
	Barker	Yes
	Gardner B.	Yes

Final YES: 6 NO: 4 EXC: 1 ABS: 0 FINAL ACTION: PASS

06:44 PM

The committee adjourned.