Date: 04/05/2006
Final
ECS Presentation on P-16 Education
COMMITTEE ON JOINT EDUCATION
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07:45 AM
Bruce Vandal, Director of the Postsecondary and Workforce Development Institute at the Education Commission of the States (ECS), introduced himself and described ECS and the work it does. He provided two handouts, a policy brief on Dual/Concurrent Enrollment and an overview of P-16 (Attachments A and B). He explained that the focus of the presentation today would be the creation of a preschool through higher education (P-16 education) council or governance to help overcome the disjointedness of the education system. He said a P-16 education system is an effective approach to the issue.
07:47 AM
Mr. Vandal described the work of the Postsecondary and Workforce Development Institute, which is a new entity at ECS. He introduced Carl Krueger, Policy Analyst at ECS, who would speak to the committee about the work of ECS in P-16 education.
07:50 AM
Mr. Krueger described his work with ECS. He noted that many states are looking at P-16 education systems as the next big reform in education policy. He described student and parent demographics that impact student graduation rates and rates of higher education participation. Mr. Krueger responded to a question from Senator Williams regarding U.S. students falling behind other countries in student achievement. He said many European countries begin educating their children at a younger age, but that those countries do not educate as many of their children as the U.S. does. He described a study showing that students from lower-income groups start kindergarten with lower cognitive skills than their better off counterparts.
07:54 AM
Mr. Krueger responded to a question from Senator Bacon regarding how other countries "sort" students to decide which will go on for more education. Mr. Krueger noted that children in many other countries are "sorted" at a younger age and that fewer students move through the education system. He noted that the U.S. system is unique in its universal provision of K-12 education. Mr. Vandal provided further response, noting the tension inherent in the U.S. system, which does not "sort" children but falls behind in producing workers for high technology professions. Mr. Krueger said one of the premises of a P-16 education system is to provide the same opportunity to all children.
07:58 AM
Mr. Krueger said P-16 is an integrated system of education from preschool through a bachelor's degree, which is focused on increasing student achievement. He said it concentrates on an interrelated education system that is focused on students. He noted that an often overlooked part of P-16 education systems is the early learning component. Once a student falls behind at a young age, he said, it is very difficult for them to catch up. Mr. Krueger spoke to the remediation needs of nearly 50 percent of students entering higher education.
08:00 AM
Representative King commented on early college programs for high school students and asked what the trend is across the nation. Mr. Krueger noted that it varies from state to state, explaining that some states favor a K-14 system; others that feel students should be allowed to take college courses when they are ready, no matter their age; and others believe 10th, 11th, and 12th grade students should be allowed to take college courses. In response to a question from Senator Windels, Mr. Krueger described a Utah program that is a good model of a dual enrollment program. He referred the members to the dual/concurrent enrollment handout, which provides a number of other examples. Mr. Vandal spoke to dual enrollment, noting that information on the availability of programs and support are key for students to succeed in such programs. He said dual enrollment has great potential as a transition tool.
08:05 AM
Representative King commented on Minnesota's dual enrollment program and asked the witnesses to describe the remediation needs of dual enrollment students in Minnesota. Mr. Vandal said that the remediation needs of those students were not much different than those of students who did not participate in the dual enrollment program. He remarked further on the Minnesota program. Representative King asked follow-up questions regarding funding of dual enrollment programs in other states, focusing on whether funding has come from K-12 budgets or from community college budgets. Mr. Krueger described Utah's funding of its program, noting that it comes from K-12, higher education, and the state. He responded to additional questions on the issue of funding. He said many dual enrollment programs have had limited impact because historically they have pulled out the best and brightest students and moved them along, but noted that the focus is shifting to traditionally underserved groups of students.
08:09 AM
Senator Williams commented on the early end of the P-16 education spectrum, and asked for examples of good pre-kindergarten programs in other states. Mr. Krueger responded, noting that no state has an exemplary early learning program. He said early learning still flies under the radar screen of most policy makers. Mr. Krueger noted that Georgia has done good things in early learning in its P-16 education system, but that the focus has been primarily on the upper end of the spectrum. He spoke about systems in Kentucky and Oregon. Mr. Vandal offered to put members in touch with experts in pre-kindergarten at ECS. He described work being done in that area. Mr. Krueger noted there is an ECS report on pre-kindergarten available.
08:15 AM
Mr. Krueger said 30 states are working on P-16 systems, most of which are focused on the high school to college transition. He described outcomes in Georgia, Indiana, and Kentucky since the inception of P-16 education systems. He said that in the past year five states have launched P-16 education councils. He described some challenges faced by new P-16 education systems.
08:17 AM
Mr. Krueger responded to a question from Representative King about the academic achievement of middle school children and whether P-16 systems had addressed the issue. Mr. Krueger said there has been some discussion in states, but that the main focus in states is on high school. He responded to follow-up questions from Representative King, noting that states are targeting their resources to different parts of the system. Mr. Vandal provided further information, describing a recent report addressing middle schools.
08:21 AM
Mr. Krueger continued describing challenges faced by P-16 education systems including governance, funding, and lack of evidence. He described policy issues facing Colorado including the student pipeline, where only 20 of every 100 9th graders finish college on-time and he described issues with educational attainment. Mr. Krueger responded to a question from Senator Windels regarding whether data is available about students who finish college, but not "on-time." He noted that data is difficult to collect and responded to follow-up questions from Senator Windels. Mr. Vandal noted the system is constructed to serve the traditional age of student.
08:26 AM
In response to a question from Representative King, Mr. Krueger said he did not think a longitudinal study was being conducted in Utah to track the success of its program. Mr. Vandal provided further clarification to Representative King's questions. Mr. Krueger continued, noting that there is a projected decline of the number of whites in the workforce and an increase in the number of Latinos. He said leadership is a challenge in states, remarking on the Governor's Education Alignment Council. He said states that have had success with P-16 education systems have had a varied leadership. He mentioned funding challenges and the need for collaboration. He said there would soon be a P-16 education policy brief available from ECS.
08:30 AM
Senator Bacon asked for comment on whether artificial barriers to continuation to and success in higher education are in place. Mr. Krueger responded, noting this concern has been raised. He spoke to the fastest-growing and highest-paying jobs, noting that math is an integral part of many of these jobs. He said some students are not getting the same opportunities in the early grades and that those students may not be getting the support they need, but rather are just pushed through the education system. He said that the "seat time" education structure needs to be studied. Senator Bacon made follow-up comments, commenting on the differing maturation rates of humans. Mr. Vandal responded, saying the sense is that more can be done to address these issues. He described a report identifying skills other than math and science needed by students to succeed in the workforce. He commented on the need for innovation and creativity.
08:37 AM
Mr. Krueger responded to a question from Representative Todd regarding preparation of Hispanic students for the workforce, describing several states that are successful in this area. Mr. Vandal provided further information.
08:39 AM
The committee adjourned.