Date: 09/06/2006

Final
Amendment 38

COMMITTEE ON LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL

Votes: View--> Action Taken:
Amend the final staff draft, page 3, line 1, strik
Amend the final staff draft, page 4, line 39, stri
Amend the final staff draft, page 5, line 14, stri
Amend the final staff draft, page 5, line 29, stri
Amend the final staff draft, page 5, lines 24, str
Amend the final staff draft, page 6, strike lines
Moved a substitute motion, page 4, line 39, after
Moved an amendment to Representative Madden's amen
Moved an amendment to the staff amendment. Insert
Moved the staff amendment (Attachment D), as amend		Pass Without Objection
PASS
PASS
Pass Without Objection
FAIL
FAIL
PASS
FAIL
Pass Without Objection
Pass Without Objection


01:27 PM -- Amendment 38

Cathy Eslinger, Legislative Council Staff, came to the table to present the ballot analysis for Amendment 38. Amendment 38 adds a new section to the state constitution regarding citizen petitions. She described the summary and analysis section of the ballot analysis. She described a proposed staff amendment (Attachment D) making a change to Table 1 in the analysis. She noted that there are four arguments for and four against the measure. She outlined the arguments to the committee. Ms. Eslinger described the estimate of fiscal impact, noting state and local impact.


01:33 PM

Ms. Eslinger responded to questions from the committee. President Fitz-Gerald noted that citizens may not understand that counties are a subdivision of the state. Speaker Romanoff provided clarification to the President's question. Ms. Eslinger responded noting that the focus of that part of the analysis is current law. Representative Hoppe asked a question about the estimated fiscal impact and how it was determined. Brad Denning, Legislative Council Staff, came to the table to address questions about the estimated fiscal impact. Mr. Denning described how that estimate was reached. He related a number of statistics to the committee regarding petitions submitted to the Legislative Council Staff. Representative Hoppe made follow-up comments to the fiscal estimate.

01:39 PM

Senator Teck made further remarks to the fiscal impact of the measure, noting its wide impact. Mr. Denning responded to Senator Teck's comments. Representative Cerbo asked additional questions about the numbers used to arrive at the fiscal estimate.


01:42 PM

The following persons testified:

 Douglas Campbell, a proponent of the measure, testified. Mr. Campbell said the scope of the measure does not apply to administrative decisions, only to laws. Mr. Campbell noted that a number of petitions that are filed with the Legislative Council Staff are reiterations of previous filings, not new filings. He commented on the length and complexity of the initiative process and noted that the intent of the measure is to simplify. Mr. Campbell spoke to the estimate of fiscal impact relating a number of statistics on the number of initiatives and referenda in past years.

01:48 PM

Mr. Campbell continued, discussing the tables contained in the analysis. He commented that he does not believe the information contained in the boxes is helpful to the average voter. He made a number of recommendations to remove some of the information. Representative Cerbo remarked on gathering petition signatures.


01:51 PM

Mr. Dennis Polhill, a proponent of the measure, testified. Mr. Polhill spoke to the estimate of fiscal impact. He noted that the fiscal impact is indeterminate. Mr. Polhill provided two handouts to the committee (Attachments E and F). He described trends in the number of petitions filed year to year. Mr. Polhill responded to a comment from President Fitz-Gerald regarding the estimated fiscal impact. Speaker Romanoff asked wrap-up questions of Mr. Polhill.


02:01 PM

Representative Butcher asked about the applicability of the measure to specific local entities.


02:02 PM

Douglas Bruce testified. He responded to the President's earlier comments regarding the impact of the measure. He responded to additional questions from President Fitz-Gerald regarding whether additional text is needed in the blue book specifying which decisions by a local or county body are considered legislative decisions. Mr. Bruce commented on the assumptions used in the estimate of fiscal impact.


02:10 PM

Mr. Bruce continued describing his objections to the estimate of fiscal impact. Mr. Bruce referred the committee to his handout entitled "Some Savings from Amendment 38" (Attachment H). He continued with his remarks to the estimate of fiscal impact.


02:18 PM

Mr. Bruce continued his testimony, saying that the analysis is too long. He said there are 45 boxes in the analysis, making the measure more complicated than needed. He said there is information in the boxes that has no bearing for many citizens. He suggested a number of specific boxes in the analysis that should be deleted. He referred the committee to his comments on the final draft, which contains his suggestions for shortening the analysis.


02:24 PM

Mr. Bruce continued his testimony, commenting that he does not believe the amendment is treated fairly in the analysis. Mr. Bruce commented on the fact that the word "petitions" is not used in the bullet points. He outlined a number of suggested changes to the bullet points. He continued his testimony, relating his suggestions regarding the summary and analysis portion of the analysis.


02:31 PM

Mr. Bruce continued his testimony regarding the summary and analysis portion of the ballot analysis. Mr. Bruce continued to express a number of concerns with the tables in the ballot analysis and he suggested that a number be deleted and others be amended. He commented on the use of the safety clause by the General Assembly and the number of citizen challenges to laws adopted by the General Assembly. He continued, expressing his concerns with the argument section of the analysis.


02:39 PM

Mr. Bruce continued his testimony.


02:40 PM

John Hershey, Office of Legislative Legal Services, came to the table to address questions regarding the scope of the measure and the definition of "legislative policy." Mr. Hershey responded to a number of follow-up questions from Speaker Romanoff. He responded to a question from Representative Madden regarding whether citizens would continue to have the right to sue challenging the constitutionality of a law. Representative Butcher asked if "elected officials" is a term used in the measure itself. Mr. Hershey said the only use of the term is in section (3) (b) of the measure. Mr. Hershey responded to follow-up questions about the applicability of the measure from Representative Butcher.


02:49 PM

Mr. Hershey responded to a question from Speaker Romanoff regarding the product of legislative process. Ms. Eslinger responded to questions from Representative Cadman regarding the arguments against the measure and who had input into those arguments.


BILL:Amendment 38
TIME: 02:54:44 PM
MOVED:Garcia
MOTION:Moved the staff amendment (Attachment D), as amended (see next vote sheet). The motion passed without objection.
SECONDED:Tupa
VOTE
Butcher
Cadman
Cerbo
Garcia
Gordon
Groff
Harvey
Hoppe
Johnson
Excused
Madden
May M.
McElhany
Spence
Teck
Tupa
Windels
Fitz-Gerald
Romanoff
Not Final YES: 0 NO: 0 EXC: 1 ABS: 0 FINAL ACTION: Pass Without Objection


BILL:Amendment 38
TIME: 02:56:16 PM
MOVED:Fitz-Gerald
MOTION:Moved an amendment to the staff amendment. Insert "additional", before the second "ten days". The motion passed without objection.
SECONDED:Butcher
VOTE
Butcher
Cadman
Cerbo
Garcia
Gordon
Groff
Harvey
Hoppe
Johnson
Excused
Madden
May M.
McElhany
Spence
Teck
Tupa
Windels
Fitz-Gerald
Romanoff
Not Final YES: 0 NO: 0 EXC: 1 ABS: 0 FINAL ACTION: Pass Without Objection


BILL:Amendment 38
TIME: 02:58:21 PM
MOVED:Cadman
MOTION:Amend the final staff draft, page 6, strike lines 5 through 18 and substitute with Mr. Bruce's suggested statement of estimated fiscal impact. The motion failed on a 7-9-2 roll call vote.
SECONDED:McElhany
VOTE
Butcher
No
Cadman
Yes
Cerbo
No
Garcia
No
Gordon
No
Groff
Excused
Harvey
Yes
Hoppe
Yes
Johnson
Excused
Madden
No
May M.
Yes
McElhany
Yes
Spence
No
Teck
Yes
Tupa
No
Windels
No
Fitz-Gerald
Yes
Romanoff
No
Not Final YES: 7 NO: 9 EXC: 2 ABS: 0 FINAL ACTION: FAIL

BILL:Amendment 38
TIME: 03:03:23 PM
MOVED:Cadman
MOTION:Amend the final staff draft, page 5, lines 24, strike "By easing current requirements, the citizen petition process"; line 25, strike "could become a powerful mechanism for placing numerous measures on the ballot.". The motion failed on a 3-12-3 roll call vote.
SECONDED:McElhany
VOTE
Butcher
No
Cadman
Yes
Cerbo
No
Garcia
No
Gordon
No
Groff
Excused
Harvey
Yes
Hoppe
No
Johnson
Excused
Madden
No
May M.
Excused
McElhany
Yes
Spence
No
Teck
No
Tupa
No
Windels
No
Fitz-Gerald
No
Romanoff
No
Not Final YES: 3 NO: 12 EXC: 3 ABS: 0 FINAL ACTION: FAIL


BILL:Amendment 38
TIME: 03:05:45 PM
MOVED:Madden
MOTION:Amend the final staff draft, page 4, line 39, strike "could not be challenged by voters because they". Not having received the required 12 votes to pass, the motion failed on a 9-6-3 roll call vote.
SECONDED:Cerbo
VOTE
Butcher
Yes
Cadman
No
Cerbo
Yes
Garcia
Yes
Gordon
No
Groff
Excused
Harvey
No
Hoppe
Yes
Johnson
Excused
Madden
Yes
May M.
Excused
McElhany
No
Spence
No
Teck
Yes
Tupa
No
Windels
Yes
Fitz-Gerald
Yes
Romanoff
Yes
Not Final YES: 9 NO: 6 EXC: 3 ABS: 0 FINAL ACTION: FAIL


BILL:Amendment 38
TIME: 03:11:11 PM
MOVED:Gordon
MOTION:Moved a substitute motion, page 4, line 39, after "voters", insert "by petition". Not having received the required 12 votes to pass, the motion failed on a 8-7-3 roll call vote.
SECONDED:Tupa
VOTE
Butcher
No
Cadman
No
Cerbo
Yes
Garcia
No
Gordon
Yes
Groff
Excused
Harvey
No
Hoppe
No
Johnson
Excused
Madden
No
May M.
Excused
McElhany
Yes
Spence
Yes
Teck
Yes
Tupa
Yes
Windels
No
Fitz-Gerald
Yes
Romanoff
Yes
Not Final YES: 8 NO: 7 EXC: 3 ABS: 0 FINAL ACTION: PASS

BILL:Amendment 38
TIME: 03:18:58 PM
MOVED:Madden
MOTION:Amend the final staff draft, page 5, line 14, strike "that have not received sufficient refinement and that cannot" and substitute "that are unconstitutional, conflict with current law, or cause serious budgetary problems. Even so, such laws could not". Not having received the required 12 votes to pass, the motion failed on a 11-4-3 roll call vote.
SECONDED:Butcher
VOTE
Butcher
Yes
Cadman
No
Cerbo
Yes
Garcia
Yes
Gordon
Yes
Groff
Excused
Harvey
No
Hoppe
Yes
Johnson
Excused
Madden
Yes
May M.
Excused
McElhany
No
Spence
Yes
Teck
Yes
Tupa
No
Windels
Yes
Fitz-Gerald
Yes
Romanoff
Yes
Not Final YES: 11 NO: 4 EXC: 3 ABS: 0 FINAL ACTION: FAIL


BILL:Amendment 38
TIME: 03:23:31 PM
MOVED:Cadman
MOTION:Moved an amendment to Representative Madden's amendment striking "or cause serious budgetary problems". The motion failed on a 6-9-3 roll call vote.
SECONDED:Hoppe
VOTE
Butcher
No
Cadman
Yes
Cerbo
No
Garcia
No
Gordon
No
Groff
Excused
Harvey
Yes
Hoppe
Yes
Johnson
Excused
Madden
No
May M.
Excused
McElhany
Yes
Spence
Yes
Teck
No
Tupa
No
Windels
No
Fitz-Gerald
Yes
Romanoff
No
Not Final YES: 6 NO: 9 EXC: 3 ABS: 0 FINAL ACTION: FAIL


BILL:Amendment 38
TIME: 03:27:52 PM
MOVED:Romanoff
MOTION:Amend the final staff draft, page 3, line 1, strike "Voters" and substitute "Registered electors", and after "may", insert "by petition". The motion passed without objection.
SECONDED:Gordon
VOTE
Butcher
Cadman
Cerbo
Garcia
Gordon
Groff
Excused
Harvey
Hoppe
Johnson
Excused
Madden
May M.
Excused
McElhany
Spence
Teck
Tupa
Windels
Fitz-Gerald
Romanoff
Not Final YES: 0 NO: 0 EXC: 3 ABS: 0 FINAL ACTION: Pass Without Objection


BILL:Amendment 38
TIME: 03:29:44 PM
MOVED:Butcher
MOTION:Amend the final staff draft, page 5, line 29, strike "today." and substitute "today and may result in laws that may conflict with other laws, may be unconstitutional, or may create budgetary problems.". The motion passed without objection.
SECONDED:Windels
VOTE
Butcher
Cadman
Cerbo
Garcia
Gordon
Groff
Excused
Harvey
Hoppe
Johnson
Excused
Madden
May M.
Excused
McElhany
Spence
Teck
Tupa
Windels
Fitz-Gerald
Romanoff
Not Final YES: 0 NO: 0 EXC: 3 ABS: 0 FINAL ACTION: Pass Without Objection