Date: 04/18/2013
Final
Committee Deliberation and Witness Testimony
COMMITTEE ON ETHICS COMMITTEE
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07:43 AM -- Committee Deliberation and Witness Testimony
Senator Aguilar called the committee to order. Senator Aguilar commented on the e-mail received from Mr. Neville's attorney (Attachment A) and she and Representative Pabon discussed the contents of the e-mail.
130418 AttachA.pdf
07:46 AM
The committee placed a conference call to Mr. Daniel Carey, lobbyist for the NRA. Senator Aguilar asked Mr. Carey to talk about his recollection of the events leading to the incident between Representative Gerou and Mr. Neville. Mr. Carey explained his interaction with House Minority Leader Waller and the Republican caucus related to discussions about the gun legislation. The committee members inquired about what he recalled about Representative Gerou's position on the legislation. Mr. Carey stated that he could not exactly recall the details of her position on the legislation. He stated that as session progressed, he tried to reconfirm the position of the Republican members on the gun bills. Representative Pabon inquired whether Mr. Carey recalled hearing that Representative Gerou was going to change her position on the gun bills.
07:55 AM
Senator Aguilar inquired whether Mr. Carey had seen the Facebook ads related to Representative Gerou's position on the gun bills. He stated that he and Representative Gerou spoke the day of the incident and he confirmed with her that the NRA was not issuing any of the ads or mailings.
Senator Scheffel asked Mr. Carey whether he had any knowledge of Mr. Neville's group mailing into Representative Gerou's district. Mr. Carey stated that the first he heard of the mailing was the day of the incident outside of the House Chamber when she told him that some mailings were coming into her district. Again, Mr. Carey stated that the NRA was not involved at all, and no information about any mailing was run through him which would be the protocol for any NRA communications. Senator Scheffel asked how the NRA was tallying Representative Gerou's vote. Mr. Carey stated that he talks to the members in the hallways and lobby, but that the NRA was showing her as a vote against the gun bills.
08:00 AM
The committee members concluded their conversation with Mr. Carey. Senator Aguilar asked Senator Scheffel to review the e-mail received from Mr. Neville's attorney this morning, and the committee proceeded to discuss whether the statement that a "rule that purports to prohibit advising of a 'political' response to a legislator is a blatant violation of core First Amendment Rights." Senator Scheffel stated that he did not feel that this was an admission that Mr. Neville threatened political reprisal against Representative Gerou. Senator Aguilar stated that she acknowledges that a citizen may have these rights, but does a professional lobbyist have these same rights. Discussion ensued. Representative Pabon stated that not having Mr. Neville appear before the committee to either confirm or deny that he threatened political reprisal to Representative Gerou makes the committee's task more difficult.
08:11 AM
Representative Pabon discussed an article that referenced a video of Dudley Brown on a blog site. He was interested in reviewing the video if it could be found. The committee watched the video of the Dudley Brown interview. Representative Pabon asked for a copy of the article that appeared on the Denver Post Spot Blog.
Representative Pabon stated that he is uncomfortable making a report without hearing from Mr. Neville. He added that since Mr. Neville has a right to be heard, he does not understand why he is declining that right. Senator Scheffel commented on the difficulty of the committee's role in trying to compel Mr. Neville's further involvement in the process. He stated that the letter from Mr. Neville's attorney today, along with a copy of the blog article Representative Pabon referenced, may help. The committee continued discussing the role of the committee and what information the committee may want to report to the Executive Committee of the Legislative Council. Representative Pabon reiterated that he is uncomfortable reporting to the Executive Committee without having Mr. Neville appear again.
08:34 AM
Sharon Eubanks, Office of Legislative Legal Services, joined the committee at the table and discussed the reporting procedure. She discussed Joint Rule 36 as it relates to due process issues. She stated that the rule allows the person being investigated to have the right to appear before the Executive Committee and be heard there. She added that Mr. Neville will be afforded the opportunity to appear at the Executive Committee hearing, but whether he participates there is his decision.
08:37 AM
Senator Aguilar stated that she wants the committee to prepare the finding of fact and send it to the Executive Committee. She added that Representative Pabon could include his concerns as well in the report to the Executive Committee. She stated that she is not inclined to obtain a subpoena to compel Mr. Neville to appear before the Ethics Committee. Representative Pabon stated that the report to the Executive Committee should point out that the Executive Committee has the option to subpoena Mr. Neville if they wish, and also to point out the precedence of a person who is the subject of a Joint Rule 36 complaint not participating in the process. Representative Pabon expressed his desire to protect the institution in future ethics investigations. Senator Scheffel expressed appreciation that Mr. Neville appeared at the first meeting.
08:42 AM
Ms. Eubanks explained that once the committee concludes its investigation, a report will be drafted for the committee to review. This report can be circulated amongst the members and edited without having to come back to another hearing. Senator Scheffel stated that the committee's role should be as a fact finder.
08:46 AM
The committee adjourned.