Bill Summary for Bill Number HB13-1226

Date: 02/13/2013

Final
BILL SUMMARY for HB13-1226

HOUSE COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION

Votes: View-->	Action Taken:
Refer House Bill 13-1226 to the Committee on Appro	PASS

10:16 AM -- House Bill 13-1226

Representative Hamner, Chair, welcomed the committee and the audience. She explained that several witnesses signed up to testify on the bill and described the process to accommodate witness testimony. She stated that both the opponents and the proponents would receive one and a half hours to complete testimony, and that each person testifying would be limited to three minutes.

Representative Levy, prime sponsor, came to the table to present House Bill 13-1226 which concerns eliminating concealed carry guns on college campuses. Under current law, a concealed carry permit holder is authorized to carry a concealed handgun in all areas of the state except those expressly prohibited. Prohibited areas include areas where the carrying of a firearm is prohibited by federal law; public elementary, middle, and high schools; and public buildings with permanent security personnel and electronic weapon screening stations at each public entrance. The bill adds new prohibited areas to the list of places where a concealed carry permit holder is not authorized to possess a concealed handgun: in any building or structure that is used by a public institution of higher education for any purpose; in any stadium or arena that is used by a public institution of higher education to host events; and outdoor, institution-sponsored events on the campus at which the chief administrator of the campus, in consulting with the chief safety officer for the campus, has elected to prohibit the carrying of firearms. Under the bill, carrying a concealed handgun on the property of a public institution of higher education in violation of the bill would be a class 6 felony.

Representative Levy explained that research shows it is not necessary to have a handgun on a college campus in order to be safe. She stated that no law can prevent someone who is determined to cause destruction from doing so. She stated that college students and guns do not mix, and that parents will chose not to send their students to the University of Colorado (CU) because guns are allowed. She stated that college dorms prohibit smoking and having candles in the rooms, but under current law, are unable to prevent students from carrying handguns. She stated that college campuses are safe right now and that there is no need to have a gun for self-defense. She stated that the accuracy of a trained police officer hitting his or her mark is 20 percent, and that unlike police officers, concealed carry permit holders are not trained to shoot under pressure. She stated that drug and alcohol abuse is involved in the vast amount of violent acts, and that suicide is prevalent on college campuses. She said that college is a time of volatile relationships, and highs and lows. She stated that as of January 11, 2013, over 355 colleges and universities in 40 states have signed resolutions to keep guns off of campus.

Representative Levy responded to questions from the committee members. Representative Holbert stated that concealed carry permits are only issued to those aged 21 years and older. Representative Levy responded that there is a risk of theft of the firearm by those who are not authorized to carry the weapon. Representative Priola discussed infringements on second amendment rights. Representative Court thanked the bill sponsor. Representative Everett asked for instances when concealed carry guns have been a problem on college campuses. Representative Landgraf discussed second amendment rights. Representative Levy stated that the second amendment does not guarantee access to guns by all people and that limits on rights to carry concealed firearms are acceptable under the United States Constitution. Representative Levy provided a handout to the committee members (Attachment A).

13HseEd0213AttachA.pdf

The following persons testified:

10:40 AM -- Tyler Quick, representing the CU Student Government, testified in support of the bill. Mr. Quick stated that he is concerned with the needs of the students at CU and wants to be sure their interests are represented. He discussed an instance on the Anschutz medical campus that took place last year when a gun was discharged in an institutional building. He stated that when faculty are fearful they do not perform to their highest ability.

Colin Sorenson, also representing CU Student Government, joined Mr. Quick in support of the bill, and discussed data from a survey that was completed on the CU-Boulder campus by the CU Student Government. He stated that 20 percent of students believe that having a gun on their person would make them feel safer. He discussed the survey in detail and urged the committee to pass the bill.

Julia Harrington, also representing CU Student Government, joined Mr. Quick and Mr. Sorenson in support of the bill. Ms. Harrington stated that college campuses are unique and that by banning weapons, the focus is returned to educating students. She discussed the dorm on the CU-Boulder campus that is specifically designated for concealed carry permit holders.

The students responded to questions from the committee.

10:55 AM -- Sarah Kelly, representing CU-Boulder students, testified in support of the bill. She stated that she also worked on the survey that Mr. Sorenson discussed. She talked about her experience as a student during the Columbine shooting and her intense fear of guns in the classroom. She stated that campus is not where guns should be and that the purpose of college is to have intellectual debate and to be an arena where students feel comfortable exercising their right to freedom of speech. She added that the bill is about feeling safe on campus. Ms. Kelly responded to questions from the committee.

11:02 AM -- Amy Miller, representing the Colorado Coalition Against Domestic Violence, testified in support of the bill. She stated there is a high risk of abuse among college students and that guns cause increased risk. She stated that the state legislature should do everything in its power to mitigate this risk. Ms. Miller responded to questions from the committee.

11:08 AM -- Phil Barber, representing himself, testified in support of the bill. Mr. Barber stated that he is a lifelong resident of Colorado and lives about one mile from CU-Boulder. He stated that he supports the bill because guns and college campuses do not mix. He discussed events that have happened on campuses and said that kids being in proximity to loaded guns is frightening. He discussed his experience in law school of witnessing heated debates and pushing and shoving matches, and said he is scared to think what would have happened in those instances if firearms had been present. Mr. Barber responded to questions from the committee.

11:14 AM -- Julie Carr, representing herself as a professor at CU-Boulder, testified in support of the bill. Dr. Carr stated that she is concerned about safety and discussed a petition that was distributed in support of having no guns on campus. She gave examples of instances where concealed carry permit holders have violated the law and killed other people. She discussed her experiences dealing with students who have mental illnesses.

11:17 AM -- Chad Kautzer, representing himself as an assistant professor at CU-Denver, testified in support of the bill. Dr. Kautzer discussed the petition. He stated that having concealed carry on campuses makes people uncomfortable and that he wants to go back to the tradition once enjoyed at the institution. He discussed Supreme Court Justice Scalia's decision which stated that regulation of second amendment rights is not a violation of the second amendment. He discussed the training and requirements of concealed carry permits. He responded to a question from Representative Priola about the nature of the petition.

11:22 AM -- Loretta Martinez, representing the Board of Trustees at Metropolitan State University of Denver (Metro), testified in support of the bill. She stated that the Board of Trustees endorses the concept of the bill. She discussed the make-up of the campus, stating that over 45,000 students and 7-8,000 employees are on campus. She stated that the Auraria campus is a complex situation because the facilities are shared among three institutions, and that all of the institutions are under one Auraria campus policy.

Sheila Rucki, representing the Metro Faculty Senate, joined Ms. Martinez in support of the bill. Ms. Rucki discussed the vote of the Board of Trustees regarding this issue. She provided a handout to the committee members (Attachment B).

13HseEd0213AttachB.pdf

11:26 AM -- Katie Little, representing herself as a professor at CU-Boulder, testified in support of the bill. Dr. Little stated that as a college professor, she is an expert on what is an appropriate learning environment and that a classroom is a place for the free exchange of ideas and not a place to be in fear. She described her experiences dealing with students who get upset because of grades they receive. She stated that she wants her workplace to be safe. She responded to questions from the committee.

11:31 AM -- Michael McGuire and Debby Kaller, representing themselves, testified in support of the bill. Mr. McGuire said that he, and his wife Debby, are passionate gun control advocates and are concerned about safety. He stated that he sees no reason why people other than law enforcement need to carry guns on campuses and that he does not feel confident that students have the maturity to carry concealed guns. He said that students carrying concealed guns will lead to accidents and suicides. He discussed his experience as a victim of bullying in the dorms when he attended college. Ms. Kaller stated that the bill provides a measure of protection to Colorado citizens and that the legacy of the legislature should be one of safer communities.

11:34 AM -- Terrence May, representing himself as a United States Army veteran, testified in support of the bill. Mr. May said that he would not dream of owning a firearm due to the safety risks it poses to him and his family. He discussed the issues that college students face, and stated that they do not have experience resolving disappointment and conflicts. He discussed his daughter, who takes a class at CU-Boulder and his fear when she is on campus. He stated that Boulder and CU police should be the ones responsible for the safety of the campus and the community. Mr. May responded to questions from the committee.

11:42 AM -- Ken Bonetti, representing himself as an academic advisor at CU-Boulder, testified in support of the bill. Mr. Bonetti stated that he views the assertion that the presence of guns is more risky, as a fact. He stated that guns on campus allow little discretion by law enforcement. He stated that the presence of concealed carry firearms influences the way instructors teach. He stated that the idea that the presence of a concealed carry permit holder will mitigate violence is a myth.

11:45 AM -- Michael D. Nosler, representing the Colorado State University System (CSU), testified in support of the bill. He stated that the bill is consistent with the statutory scheme that tasks the legislature with setting policy concerning second amendment rights, and that the bill is consistent with the Colorado Court of Appeals ruling, in which the court made it clear that it is up to the legislature to add institutions of higher education to the list of places under law where concealed carry is not authorized. He said that the bill is consistent with the CSU policy dated December 4, 2009, which states that the board determines that the use and display of firearms on the CSU campuses are subject to reasonable control. He added that concealed carry initiatives do not makes campuses safer.

11:49 AM -- Doug Duncan, representing himself as a scientist at CU-Boulder, testified in support of the bill. Dr. Duncan asked the committee to make its decision based on facts and statistics. He stated that 21 year olds are not kids, but that they are not yet adults either. He said that the human brain matures around 25 years of age. He said that the main result of having more guns is more suicides and accidental shootings of friends. He added that having guns on campus will not help teaching.

11:52 AM -- Ken Toltz, representing himself and his community as a citizen of Colorado, testified in support of the bill. Mr. Toltz stated that he is a former faculty member on a college campus and that he trusts that campuses are a safe place for students to live. He described his work over the last 13 years to make guns less accessible to those who should not have them. He stated that guns on college campuses undermine the ability to have students gain an education in a safe environment.

11:55 AM -- Tim Roberts, representing himself and his family as a spouse of a CU professor, testified in support of the bill. Mr. Roberts stated that he was not raised in a gun culture and that he is not a native of the West. He stated that the deep irony here is in talking about the educational context that the bill impacts. He stated that open debate in classrooms is needed for the development of kids, and that the bill is a very clear common sense solution.

12:01 PM

The support portion of the testimony came to a close; there were no other witnesses signed up in support of the bill. The committee took a brief recess.

12:11 PM

The committee came back to order. Representative Hamner stated that the opposition would have one and a half hours for testimony and that each witness would be limited to three minutes.

The following persons testified:

12:11 PM -- Justin Smith, representing the County Sheriffs of Colorado, testified in opposition to the bill. Sheriff Smith stated that the bill is in search of a problem that doesn't currently exist. He stated that under current law, firearms can already be banned from campuses. He stated that the bill is simply asking people to follow the honor system and that the honor system says that we want bad people to be honorable. He stated that as a peace officer, there is no legal obligation to protect citizens unless there is an expectation set for protecting them. He responded to questions from the committee.

12:25 PM -- Daniel Koch, representing students of CU-Denver and the Auraria campus, testified in opposition to the bill. He said that he has gained extensive knowledge of the Auraria campus when he attended school there and that the campus is vast, there are too many classrooms, and that the current security staff is too small to ensure the adequate safety and security of the student body and faculty. He discussed the 2007 Virginia Tech shooting and stated that the situation showed the worst case scenario of what can occur on gun-free campuses. He stated that students are powerless against shooters and that evil will prevail when bad legislation forces good people to not protect themselves.

12:27 PM -- Robert Edmiston, representing the Firearms Coalition of Colorado, testified in opposition to the bill. Mr. Edmiston provided a handout to the committee members (Attachment C). He said that extensive research literature shows that guns do not create more crime. He responded to questions from the committee.

13HseEd0213AttachC.pdf

12:32 PM -- Scott Hendrick, representing himself as a CSU alumni and a representative of Students for Concealed Carry, testified in opposition to the bill. He stated that Students for Concealed Carry represents hundreds of members in Colorado. He stated that since the Concealed Carry Act of 2003, which allows students to carry concealed firearms at CSU, hundreds of thousands of students have attended institutions of higher education and the only incident since then was the incident that took place at CU's Anschutz medical campus. He responded to questions from the committee.

12:38 PM -- Thomas E. Herman, representing himself, testified in opposition to the bill and proposed an amendment. Mr. Herman provided a handout to the members of the committee (Attachment D). He discussed his proposal, stating that students who have concealed carry permits should be called reserve security guards and be allowed to carry weapons in the same areas as campus security guards. He said that there should be no limit on the number of reserve security guards that can be present on campus and that they should wear name tags in the event an emergency occurs that requires the use of his or her firearm. He gave information on his background.

13HseEd0213AttachD.pdf

12:41 PM -- Laura Carno, representing herself, testified in opposition to the bill. Ms. Carno described her experience as a victim of an assault. She stated that a firearm allows her to protect herself against an attacker. She stated that she is not suggesting the everyone carry a firearm, but wants to be sure that those who are comfortable with carrying one are able to make the decision to do so.

12:44 PM -- Brad Tutor, representing himself, testified in opposition to the bill. Mr. Tutor stated that gun control measures are based on emotion and not on facts. He said that we must consider public safety, and that the police are not here for individual safety, but for public safety. He stated that he does not want to see another situation like Virginia Tech happen. He talked about his daughter who is serving in eastern Afghanistan and stated that college students should be treated as adults.

12:48 PM -- Robin Leopold, representing CU students and staff, testified in opposition to the bill. Mr. Leopold stated that he carries a concealed weapon everywhere he is lawfully permitted to do so. He stated that he has taken classes to ensure that he is educated and it is insulting that all of his training is null and void if he passes an imaginary line onto a college campus. He discussed his political stance. He stated that the majority of gun crimes are committed by outliers and that in science, outliers are treated on their own without impacting the normal population. He discussed the case of James Holmes. Mr. Leopold responded to questions from the committee.

12:53 PM -- Clint Bales, representing himself, testified in opposition to the bill. Mr. Bales discussed his experience being robbed at gun point while on his college campus in Wichita, Kansas. He stated that a week after he was attacked, another student was attacked on his campus. He stated that gun-free campuses tell criminals that college students are vulnerable and unarmed. Mr. Bales responded to questions from the committee.

12:59 PM -- Robert Parker, representing himself and his company, Parker Arms, testified in opposition to the bill. Mr. Parker said that the bill makes criminals out of law abiding citizens.

01:01 PM -- James Durden, representing himself, testified in opposition to the bill. Mr. Durden provided information on his background. He stated that concealed carry permit holders offer a cost-effective means of defense on college campuses. He stated that the bill limits his ability to defend himself, which he stated, is a breach of the second amendment. He added that guns are like fire extinguishers; you don't really need one until you really need one, and nothing else will do.

01:04 PM -- Suzanne Morrison, representing herself, testified in opposition to the bill. Ms. Morrison expressed her displeasure for the bill sponsor's characterization of persons aged 18 to 21 years old. She stated that police are here to gather facts after tragedy occurs and that this bill is intended to control people. She stated that the right to carry a gun or not carry a gun and to protect ourselves or not protect ourselves, is not a right that government can grant and is not a right that government can take away. She stated that our God-given rights are not up for debate or to take away. She stated that this bill will not keep guns out of the hands of those who intend to do harm to others.

01:07 PM -- Troy Smith, representing himself, testified in opposition to the bill. Mr. Smith discussed his fiancee's right to defend herself as an expectant mother. He stated that mass murderers who are stopped by police kill approximately 14 people before they are stopped, and mass murderers who are stopped by other armed citizens are only able to kill about 2.33 persons before being stopped. He said that it is all about response time.

01:11 PM -- Kirk Fry, representing himself, testified in opposition to the bill. He stated that the bill is in conflict with existing state statute and supreme court decisions. He stated that this issue has already been resolved.

01:16 PM -- Justin Hayward, representing himself, his family, and his wife, testified in opposition to the bill. He stated that in today's age, we cannot send our kids into gun-free zones and that gun-free zones do not work. He stated that the deranged pick gun-free zones to attack others. He stated that second amendment rights should not be taken away when stepping onto a college campus. He added that colleges should be able to set their own policies and allow parents to choose which college they will send their kids to.

01:18 PM -- Luke O'Dell, representing himself, testified in opposition to the bill. He stated that the chance of accidents involving guns is far lower than the threat of criminals coming in and shooting people. He stated that Virginia Tech is a gun-free zone. He responded to questions from the committee.

01:20 PM -- Robert Herndon, representing himself, testified in opposition to the bill. Mr. Herndon stated that his daughter was a student at Columbine when the shooting occurred and that today, she is a teacher. He stated that Columbine learned from its mistakes and they now have two armed guards on duty at all times. He asked the committee to look carefully at what is best for the citizens and the citizens' children. He stated that it is the threat of resistance, not the threat of nonresistance, that keeps students safe. He asked that the bill be amended to provide a responsible armed response.

01:24 PM -- Dave Sullivan, representing himself, testified in opposition to the bill. He discussed his son's background. He discussed the clientele he serves, stating that over the last 36 years, more and more women have obtained concealed carry permits. He added that this bill is like putting out a sign that says "open house."

01:27 PM -- Bradford Janes, representing himself, testified in opposition to the bill. He stated that the problem is about trust. He stated that bills like this have inspired the purchase of over 6 million guns since 2009. He said that people are buying guns because they fear that their rights are about to be taken away from them.

01:31 PM -- Lisa Spear, representing herself, testified in opposition to the bill. She stated that she has a concealed carry permit, but that she was not raised in a home with guns. She stated that she decided she needed to have a concealed carry permit due to threats against her family. She stated that the legislation does not consider people who have purchased a gun for their own self protection.

01:33 PM -- Mark Egbert, representing himself, testified in opposition to the bill. He stated that there is common ground on both sides -- as people, we abhor the violence that is happening. He stated that this bill is not the best thing that we can do, and that this is an individual issue and not a campus issue. He discussed women being out at night and the need to face fear. He said that a positive step is to educate people about guns. He added that no one is afraid to touch car keys, but cars are a weapon too.

01:37 PM -- Chris Bland, representing himself and his family, testified in opposition to the bill. He stated that concealed carry permit holders are not permitted to drink or do drugs when carrying. He stated that people carry firearms for defensive purposes, not for offensive purposes. He stated that people want to be able to protect themselves. He stated that we should focus efforts on prevention and need to have a response plan when threatened. He stated that college campuses are extremely safe, and that we have the ability to carry concealed guns currently.

01:41 PM -- Nick Bosco, representing himself, his family, and his sister, testified in opposition to the bill. He told his sister's story about almost being attacked and her showing the perpetrator her gun.

01:43 PM

The testimony portion for the opposition side ended due to the time limit placed on testimony. There were 27 additional witnesses signed up in opposition to the bill that did not get the opportunity to speak due to the time limit. Representative Hamner asked those in opposition of the bill to rise; staff counted 42 persons standing in the room. Representative Hamner asked those in support of the bill to rise; staff counted 8 people standing in favor, in the room.

Representative Levy provided closing comments to the bill.

Persons in opposition to the bill provided Attachments E through I for inclusion in the record.

13HseEd0213AttachE.pdf

13HseEd0213AttachF.pdf

13HseEd0213AttachG.pdf

13HseEd0213AttachH.pdf

13HseEd0213AttachI.pdf


BILL:	HB13-1226
TIME:	01:45:54 PM
MOVED:	Peniston
MOTION:	Refer House Bill 13-1226 to the Committee on Appropriations. The motion passed on a vote of 7-6.
SECONDED:	Court
		VOTE
	Buckner	Yes
	Court	Yes
	Everett	No
	Fields	Yes
	Holbert	No
	Landgraf	No
	Murray	No
	Pettersen	Yes
	Priola	No
	Wilson	No
	Young	Yes
	Peniston	Yes
	Hamner	Yes

Final YES: 7 NO: 6 EXC: 0 ABS: 0 FINAL ACTION: PASS

01:51 PM

The committee adjourned.