Joint Committee Committee on Ethics Committee (04/10/2013)

Final
STAFF SUMMARY OF MEETING

COMMITTEE ON ETHICS COMMITTEE

Date:	04/10/2013	ATTENDANCE

Time:	07:44 AM to 09:04 AM	Pabon	X
		Scheffel	X
Place:	SCR 353	Aguilar	X

This Meeting was called to order by
	Senator Aguilar

This Report was prepared by
	Elizabeth Burger
		X = Present, E = Excused, A = Absent, * = Present after roll call

Bills Addressed:		Action Taken:
Continuation of Witness Testimony		Witness Testimony and/or Committee Discussion Only

07:44 AM -- Continuation of Witness Testimony

Senator Aguilar called the committee to order. The committee received a notebook of materials containing documents specific to this and prior hearings of the committee. A copy of the notebook can be viewed in the Offices of Legislative Council, State Capitol Building, Room 029. Representative Waller came to the table. Senator Aguilar reiterated that the committee requested that Representative Waller appear before the committee to provide information on his conversations with Representative Gerou prior to the incident with Mr. Neville.

07:46 AM

Representative Waller described his interactions with Representative Gerou, noting that there was considerable lobbying on the gun legislation. Representative Pabon discussed the testimony that Representative Gerou had previously given the committee regarding her conversations with Representative Waller on the gun legislation. Representative Waller noted that he was told by Daniel Carey that he had heard a rumor regarding Representative Gerou's position on the gun legislation, and Representative Waller responded that he would talk to Representative Gerou because he hadn't heard the rumor. When he spoke with her, Representative Gerou said that she had no plans to vote for the legislation. Representative Pabon asked Representative Waller if he had multiple conversations with Representative Gerou regarding the gun legislation and Representative Waller stated that it was possible that they discussed the issue more than once, but that he didn't recall other conversations. The committee discussed Representative Waller's conversation with Mr. Carey and Representative Waller noted that he talked to Mr. Carey, after which he spoke to Representative Gerou who told him that she was not planning on voting for the legislation, and that he did not recall if he relayed this information back to Mr. Carey or not. Senator Scheffel asked if Representative Waller was concerned that Representative Gerou might vote for the legislation, and Representative Waller stated that he wasn't concerned about her vote and noted that he didn't know why the rumors were being circulated. Representative Waller noted that his job to make sure his caucus is prepared for the debate on legislation and that it was appropriate for him talk to members of his caucus about any issues.

08:03 AM

The committee discussed the notice that had been sent from Mr. Neville's attorney noting that Mr. Neville would no longer be participating in committee's process. The committee asked Representative Gerou to return to the table. Senator Aguilar recounted her understanding of Representative Gerou's previous testimony. Representative Gerou clarified details regarding the incident with Mr. Neville and the time prior to the incident. Senator Aguilar asked if, when Mr. Neville said "you've just earned another round of mailers in your district" did he also add "for a primary" and Representative Gerou stated that she wasn't sure, but did not think so. Representative Gerou noted that the only reason to send mailers into the district of a member of the same party would be to support a primary, and that was her assumption, but she wasn't sure. She reiterated that her concern was that her constituents were being lied to and and there was a heightened sense of tension in the building on the day of the incident with Mr. Neville.

08:16 AM

Senator Aguilar stated that the committee had now heard from all of the witnesses that were called before the committee and Representative Pabon said that he still had questions for some of the witnesses. He noted that Mr. Carey had submitted a written statement to the committee and recounted the statement to the committee. Representative Pabon noted that he still had questions that were not answered by Mr. Carey's statement and asked what avenues the committee had to gain additional information from Mr. Carey.

08:21 AM

Jennifer Gilroy, Office of Legislative Legal Services (OLLS), came to the table and responded that staff could assist in setting up a conference call with Mr. Carey. The committee agreed to set up the call.

08:23 AM

Representative Pabon read the statement that had been provided to the committee from Mr. Neville's attorney noting that Mr. Neville would no longer be participating in the hearing. Representative Pabon noted that the committee had asked for copies of Facebook advertisements targeting Representative Gerou and had not received the ads. In addition, he noted that the committee did not have an opportunity to question Mr. Neville about the copies of the mailers that were provided to the committee and stated that he believed the committee needed that information in order to be able to resolve the complaint. He also expressed concern that it would set a bad precedent to allow individuals accused of ethics violations to determine that they would no longer participate in the investigation process. Senator Aguilar asked if the committee could give Mr. Neville the option of continuing to participate in the committee's process or resigning his lobbying credentials, and Representative Pabon discussed the possible precedent such action might set. Senator Scheffel noted that the function of the committee was to gather facts and that the committee should discuss whether it had sufficient information to issue a report and conclude its work. He asked what additional information could be gained by subpoenaing Mr. Neville to appear before the committee.

08:30 AM

Representative Pabon stated his belief that the committee needed additional information from Mr. Neville in order to complete its investigation. He noted that he was not ready to conclude whether or not a violation of Joint Rule 36 occurred, but noted that Mr. Neville could possibly provide additional information about the mailers and Senator Aguilar stated that she would still like to see a copy of the Facebook advertisement. The committee discussed the mailers and the Facebook advertisement and the additional information that may be helpful for the committee to obtain to conclude its investigation. Representative Pabon recounted his understanding of how the process of issuing subpoenas would work. He stated that, in his view, it was appropriate to ask the Executive Committee of the Legislative Council (Executive Committee) to seek subpoena power and if the Executive Committee determined not to do so, the Joint Rule 36 Committee could determine at that point whether it had sufficient information to issue its report.

08:40 AM

Ms. Gilroy clarified the committee's previous requests of Mr. Neville to provide copies of the mailers and Facebook advertisements, and discussed the provisions of Joint Rule 36. Sharon Eubanks, OLLS, distributed a memorandum to the committee regarding the legislative subpoena process and discussed the process. She noted that, if the Executive Committee decided to pursue the issuance of a subpoena, it would proceed under the process outlined in Joint Rule 33. Ms. Eubanks noted that the Executive Committee had never used the Joint Rule 33 process to issue a subpoena.

08:50 AM

Senator Aguilar suggested that the committee again request that Mr. Neville appear before the committee. She also suggested that OLLS draft a letter summarizing the investigation and letting the Executive Committee determine whether there was sufficient information to proceed on the matter. Representative Pabon suggested that the committee request that the Executive Committee determine whether the issuance of a subpoena to Mr. Neville was the proper way to move forward and if the Executive Committee did not grant the subpoenas, then the Joint Rule 36 Committee could attempt to complete its report at that point. Senator Scheffel commented on the provisions of Joint Rule 36, and asked if significant additional facts would be obtained if Mr. Neville appeared before the committee. Representative Pabon reiterated the questions that he still had regarding Mr. Neville's statement to Representative Gerou regarding the mailers.

09:00 AM

Senator Aguilar stated that staff should set up a conference call with Mr. Carey. She further asked that staff prepare documents again requesting that Mr. Neville appear before the committee and requesting a copy of the Facebook advertisement. She further asked staff to begin preparation of a draft report which the committee could discuss. The committee discussed future meeting dates, and agreed to meet at a time when a call with Mr. Carey could be set up. They also agreed to meet on Wednesday, April 17, at 7:30 a.m.

09:04 AM

The committee adjourned.