Date: 09/08/2009
Final
County Commissioners/Employers
ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY POVERTY REDUCTION TASK FORCE
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01:14 PM -- County Commissioners/Employers
The committee reconvened and listened to a panel presentation from county commissioners. The panel was charged with providing perspectives on statewide economic development and poverty reduction. The panelists introduced themselves.
01:17 PM -- Commissioner John Martin, Garfield County, introduced himself and described his background. He stated that poverty will be with us forever, but it is important to help those who want help and who will respond rather than those who choose to be in poverty and who use it as a means of economic gain. He said that there are too many opportunities to abuse the system. He described his grandparents' desire to succeed in spite of the Depression, and stated that such an attitude should be instilled in modern society. Commissioner Martin compared his grandparents' attitude to the "entitled" attitude of recent generations. He discussed the need to overcome people who live in poverty to abuse the system and people who live in poverty because they are too proud to ask for help. He described the Garfield County match program for Women, Infants, and Children program benefits, and differentiated between "hand-ups" and "hand-outs."
01:26 PM -- Commissioner Kathy Hartman, Jefferson County, introduced herself and described her background with the Jefferson County Self Sufficiency Program (STRIVE). Commissioner Hartman addressed Commissioner Martin's comments regarding people who abuse the system versus people who are too proud to use the system. She stated that poverty gets oversimplified in two directions: it is either viewed a systemic problem that can be fixed with more laws, or as a personal problem that has to do with poor personal choices. She argued that both views were oversimplifications, and said that she has rarely seen a situation that was not a combination of both poor choices and a bad system. Commissioner Hartman discussed the challenges of creating a culture that supports good decisions over bad decisions. She drew a distinction between people with the means to get out of poverty versus people without the means to get out of poverty, such as individuals who are disabled. She discussed the Jefferson County Sixty Month Committee, which looked at decisions to extend TANF benefits past five years for individuals who were disabled but who did not necessarily fit SSI definitions of disabled. She stated that efforts should be made help ensure that children who are born into low-income families are able to get out of poverty. Commissioner Hartman spoke about temporary benefits that can help individuals who are struggling with the economy. She stated that her experience had illustrated that education and a stable second parent in the family are the two biggest aids to getting people out of poverty, and noted that it is easier to help provide the former than the latter. Commissioner Hartman stressed the importance of the education and community college system.
01:35 PM -- Ms. Pat Ratliff, testifying on behalf of La Junta County Commissioner Jake Klein, described circumstances in La Junta County. She stated that La Junta County residents leave home because they are looking for more opportunities, even while La Junta County companies need workers. Ms. Ratliff noted that many of the people who stay in La Junta County to work cannot pass required drug tests, or cannot pass a test related to alcoholism.
01:37 PM -- Commissioner Dave Long, Weld County, described his past experience as a mental health professional. He stated that problems related to poverty often have to do with attitude, aptitude, and luck. As a health worker, he saw that it was successful to provide incentives to encourage people to find a support structure other than drugs and alcohol and to develop strategies to improve their quality of life. Commissioner Long addressed Ms. Ratliff's comments concerning people wanting to leave home. He stated that many Weld County residents get an education and then return to Weld County. He cited statistics regarding Weld County's high ratings for wage growth and primary job creation. He discussed a report regarding the reduction of the poverty rate in Weld County. Commissioner Long discussed strategies to provide economic opportunities, such as lower property taxes, less regulation, a charter limiting government growth to 5 percent, and a willingness to provide legal incentives to drop development fees for companies, such as a tax credit based on job creation. He specifically cited Weld County's success in attracting jobs in the energy sector. Commissioner Long noted that it can be difficult to find applicants who can pass drug and alcohol tests. He also explained that the agriculture industry has changed over time due to a decline in migrant workers and gas wells. He described a migrant Head Start program that has been discontinued due to lack of clientele.
01:45 PM
Responding to questions from Senator White, Commissioner Martin stated that federal guidelines preclude the county from asking individuals who apply for emergency services if they are documented or undocumented. Discussion continued concerning federal guidelines, the percentage of applicants who do not speak English, and programs geared toward such applicants. Commissioner Martin provided data concerning the county's unemployment rate.
01:48 PM
Ms. Ratliff shared additional comments related to fraud. She stated that fraud exists all over, and is a consequence of trying to make the system accessible to those who need help. She described a middle ground that provides benefits to individuals in need without creating too many obstacles to apply.
01:51 PM
Senator Hudak discussed 32-page applications for benefits and the issue of department silos, and questioned whether benefits were accessible enough for those in need. Commissioner Hartman stated that the program with the greatest amount of fraud is the Unemployment Insurance program, as it is easy for an individual to prove that he or she is looking for work. She said that counties are caught between a rock and a hard place due to federal guidelines regarding timeliness and proof and the fact that many people applying for benefits do not have all their paperwork in order. Commissioner Hartman indicated that fraud is less of a problem for Jefferson County than the need to process benefits on time. She addressed the increase in applications that occurred when fuel prices went up. She said that, short of funding more fraud investigators, there is little that the state can do to address fraud without creating worse conditions for the counties.
01:56 PM
Representative Gagliardi discussed the mission of the task force and its focus on the poorest of the poor. She stated that while abuse is an issue, it is important to help families and children in need. She addressed Commissioner Martin's comments regarding personal responsibility and described the need to reach out to individuals who need help.
01:57 PM
Representative Kefalas joined the discussion on fraud, and clarified that in order to access food stamps or other state services, an individual needs to provide proper documentation. Discussion continued among Representative Kefalas, Ms. Ratliff, and Commissioner Martin regarding past legislation concerning proper documentation and differentiating between fraud by illegal immigrants and fraud by American citizens who manipulate the system.
02:02 PM
Senator Sandoval noted that individuals who only deal in cash may be enabled by an employer. Discussion continued among Commissioner Martin and Ms. Ratliff. Ms. Ratliff commented that Commissioner Martin had been making a distinction between personality types, rather than citing fraud as a primary problem. Senator White and Commissioner Martin discussed companies who employ on a cash-only basis and underbid legitimate businesses. Commissioner Martin commented on individuals who are taken care of by the community rather than by the system of public assistance.
02:07 PM
Senator Sandoval remarked that lower-income individuals may use cash because they do not have bank accounts. She asked Commissioner Long to discuss whether lower taxes negatively affected Weld County. Commissioner Long discussed various aspects of Weld County's budget, and cited its success in junior colleges and its workforce development team. Commissioner Hartman contrasted businesses in Weld County to those in Jefferson County. She discussed the challenges to Jefferson County's growth. She emphasized that all counties were different and had very different economic bases and issues. She said it was important to focus on the common denominator of helping people get out of poverty.
02:13 PM
Responding to questions from Representative Kefalas, Commissioner Long discussed strategies for targeting individuals to receive proper training for available jobs. Commissioner Long described the assessment process at workforce development centers, and noted that the centers direct individuals towards jobs that fit their interests and will promote self-sufficiency. Discussion continued concerning Weld County's declining poverty rate and its reduced need for migrant workers. Commissioner Martin shared additional comments regarding job training at correctional facilities.
02:22 PM
Representative Kagan expressed his concern with the focus on fraud over access to benefits and well-paying jobs. Commissioner Martin noted that governments need to work together, and it is important for the state government to understand the circumstances of local governments and to allow them to do a better job with less bureaucracy. Senator White noted that individuals who defraud the system take resources away from those in need.
02:27 PM
Commissioner Hartman addressed an earlier question about targeting individuals to receive proper training for available jobs. She remarked that most individuals have only seen a small portion of the labor market. She stated that local governments should identify aptitude and interests and direct individuals towards parts of the labor market with which they may be unfamiliar. She noted that education is the one variable that local governments have less control over than the state, and that it is the number one predictor for being in poverty. She emphasized the importance of finding meaningful educational and re-educational strategies to help individuals find jobs.
02:30 PM
The committee took a brief recess.